Envisioning the Consciousness for a more Loving World

The Emperor has No Clothes!   She exclaimed

Yes, today on my radio show I am my special guest.  I need to “vent”, “rant”, or whatever term you might like to use about David Neagle’s total misrepresentation of his workshop Experience the Reality of Success.

In “reality” we all experienced the reality of begging, not the promised reality of vibrational manifestation.

Mid-March this year, I travelled all the way from Australia to the United States at a cost of around $12,000 Aust Dollars (including the workshop admission fee) to attend David Neagle’s workshop “Experience The Reality of Success”.

The main thrust of the advertising which enticed me to make the very expensive decision to attend the workshop is that everyone who attends will actually Experience the Reality of Success.

Here is an actual quote from one of David Neagle’s promotional teleseminars

“… we called it Experience the Reality of Success, because that’s exactly what you do.  You experience it for real.  We actually show you how to manifest money from nothing – bang! 
Now you might say, it’s got to be some sort of dog and pony show.  It’s a trick. 
No it’s not.  We actually do it.  You start with nothing and manifest money.  You really do.  And if I’m lying or exaggerating you can have your money back”
(The Art of Success [AOS] teleseminar Session 4 about 1hr.12mins in).
 
Now as to the last part, I contend that David was both “lying and exaggerating” because whilst it’s true that we did start with nothing, what we did was to go out on the streets and beg for money

That was the way we were to “manifest” the money.  There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between vibrationally manifesting money and begging for money on the streets. 

If that’s the skill that’s required to “manifest” a fortune, then all the so-called beggars on the streets of India must be all multi-millionaires, because they do it extremely well.

Yet, when I pointed this fact out to David and asked for my money back, as per his offer, instead of receiving my money, I received a letter from his lawyer.

Whilst David’s lawyer and I disagreed on most things related to David and his workshop, there was one thing that he did acknowledge.  And that was that it was quite legal and within my rights to post this critical review here on my blog.  As we agreed, if it was illegal to write a critical review, all of the Broadway theatre critics would now be in jail.
 
Nevertheless, by sending me a lawyer’s letter instead of returning my money, again David was misrepresenting the “money-back” offer he made in his promotional teleseminar, as well as misrepresenting the workshop itself.

But let’s continue and then I tell you more about this amazing, so-called, “life changing exercise in manifestation”.  Otherwise known by the rest of the world as begging.
 
David continued in his promotional speech, and again I’m quoting:
 
“We teach you how to do it [manifest money from nothing – bang ] by putting yourself in harmony with you.  And then you just do it according to all of the laws of the universe.  Now that’s really something because now you know how to do this when you go home and you can take that, you can take all that stuff that we showed you inside of yourself and how to use it.  How to harness it.  How to focus it.  How to control it.  And then we send you home back into what it is that you want to do and you have that experience of actually doing it.  That increases your rate of success dramatically.  Dramatically!  Because it’s something that you’ve actually experienced.  You know it’s for real.  You know that it’s not a game, a joke, or some hypie thing that someone is trying to sell.”
 
That promise and a number of other similarly enticing promises (such as I teach you what no other Law of Attraction teacher teaches) in other teleseminars, DVDs and CDs, is why I went to the workshop.

I’ve studied the works of most of the top Law of Attraction teachers and none of them give you the experience that David ‘promised’.  I wanted to experience that missing piece that no other teacher teaches.
 
Because I believed David’s deceptive hype and his promises, I was prepared to travel half way across the world, taking 10 days out of my life, and spend $12,000 because I was going to learn that missing ingredient.  I was going to actually “experience the reality” of manifesting on the spot.  WOW!  How exciting!
 
That’s what he promised.
 

And this is what we got.
 

On the 2nd day of the workshop – Tuesday – David announces that that night we are all going to manifest $1000 from nothing.  Once we’d had the experience of “manifesting” that $1000, the money would then go to chariity.

WHOOP DEE DOO  I thought.  Here it is.  Here’s what I’ve come all this way to do. 

OK so the content information presented on stage was basically the same as I can hear any time just by listening to his CDs et cetera, and I wasn’t at all impressed with that.  But now I was going to have the actual experience of manifesting money instantly and without any struggle by doing it in harmony with the Universal forces.  And that is what I really came for.     RIPPER!

This is a condensed version of what we were told to do for the exercise.

We had to go out on the streets of Las Vegas and “manifest $1000 from nothing”.

We were not to use anything that we might use in business. We were not to sell any of our products or use anything that we would normally use or do in our day-to-day business life.  We were not to gamble or do anything in any of the casinos.

We were told that we had to stay on the streets throughout the entire night, if that’s what it took, to get this $1000 each. And primarily for safety sake, we had to go out in groups of about 6 or so – go out with the other people who were sitting at our table.

Now in our group were a couple of people who had been to the workshop before – why they went back for a repeat performance goodness only knows.  That’s what I mean by my exclamation that the Emperor has no clothes.

Anyway, they indicated that the best way, and what was really expected of us, was that we just go up to strangers in the street and ask them for money.  This a couple of people from our group did, and we were all nearly arrested.

The next day in the debrief, and the day after that, it was confirmed, although not overtly stated, that asking strangers for money was what we were expected to do to manifest our $1000 each.
 
Now staying on the streets at night until we had each accumulated $1000 by going up to strangers and asking them for money is at best an exercise in persistence.  And I’ve never been short on persistence. 

But in reality it was, pure and simple, an exercise in BEGGING.

And in no way is it an exercise in raising one’s vibrations and manifesting money without struggle, according to the Universal Laws.
 
Yes, the great exercise that I’d travelled half way around the planet and spent $12,000 to learn was an exercise in begging, pure and simple.

Now I wouldn’t really complain about the so-called “manifestation”/begging exercise if it had been promoted for what it was. 

At a stretch, I could even argue a case supporting the exercise; if he’d promoted the workshop as one in which the participants will do an exercise that will help them confront and overcome issues of love, security, and self esteem, which are generally the main reasons that people have problems manifesting in their lives.  Had he said something like that, then he would have been honest.  And had he been honest, in that way, in his promoting of the workshop; then I, for one, would not have wasted my time and money attending.

The only problem with that sort of truth in advertising is that unless David included a genuine manifestation exercise, Experience the Reality of Success would then only be just another personal development workshop.  And they are a dime a dozen.  

I must also add that the content of all of David’s CDs and DVD programs is excellent material.  I’ve learned a lot from them.  And I listen to them frequently from the comfort of my office at home at no extra cost other than the initial purchase price.  So I did not have to travel to the States to hear the same content and stories.  But that still would have been OK if he’d actually fulfilled his main promised and taught us how to manifest as opposed to getting us to go out on the streets and beg for money. 

Adding Insult to Injury

As evidence that David is well aware that what he is doing is, at best, questionable; a couple of weeks after the Experience the Reality of Success workshop had finished, David Neagle had a follow-up teleseminar.  And during that teleseminar David himself expressed exactly what I’ve been arguing since the workshop finished.  He acknowledged that the main exercise was NOT an exercise in manifestation.  He said, and again I’m quoting:

“The manifestation exercise is benign”.  “The only reason that people recoil from it so much is that all their stuff around love, security, and self esteem comes rushing to the surface”.

Now had I known that the major part of the workshop was an exercise reflecting on my reactions, with relation to love, security, and self esteem, I certainly would not have wasted my time or money in attending because I’ve been to so many workshops in years gone by that put me through those love, security, and self esteem exercises.  There is nothing new in that sort of work.  Most Personal Development workshops cover it in some form. 

Again, the only reason that I went to Experience the Reality of Success was because of David Neagle’s promise that I’d learn something total new and unique about manifestation.  And yet by David’s your own admission on the post-Experience the Reality of Success call, the major component of the workshop, was NOT about manifestation, but instead about reflecting on our behaviour.

David continued;

“The whole idea [of the manifestation exercise] is that you learned how you behaved in the exercise.  How did you behave?  How did you feel?  What was the experience like for you?”

They were his very words.  And, as I’m sure you’d agree, they paint a totally different picture than the picture he promised in his promotional material that I’ve quoted above.  Clearly, his promotional material is a total deception.

There were at least 8 people that I know of who just walked out of the workshop on the Tuesday in disgust, never to return again.  Like me, they too were so appalled at the deception that had brought them to the workshop.

Contravention of the Federal Trade Commission Act

One of the Federal Trade Commission publications states “In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation … [of a product or service] is deceptive if it is likely to:

• mislead consumers and
• affect consumers’ behavior or decisions about the product or service.

So not only was David Neagle

  1. “lying and exaggerating” about the vibrational manifestation we would experience in his workshop Experience The Reality of Success, which by his own words after the event, was not about manifestation at all, but about reflecting on our issues around love, security and self esteem;
  2. he was “lying and exaggerating” about giving us our money back if we believed that he was “lying and exaggerating”.   As I said, I got a letter from his lawyer instead of my money.  
  3. but also, in misrepresenting the workshop as he did, and still does, he is actually acting illegally by contravening the US Federal Trade Commission Act, as highlighted above.

By training, I’m an ethicist.  My main areas of ethics are Environmental Ethics, Sustainability Ethics and BUSINESS ETHICS.  I taught MBA Business Ethics courses at a number of different Universities, in Australia and overseas.  And these days, more than ever before, society is expecting ethical business behaviour from everyone.  And what I experienced sure missed the mark there.

Is it that David Neagle just “Doesn’t Get It?”

As a result of my ethics research over the years, I have so often seen people, especially business men, who do things that are totally unethical.  However, even though people explain what they have done is wrong, they still just don’t get it

It’s the story of the Emperor has No Clothes, from the Emperor’s perspective.

And I have to wonder if this is the situation with David Neagle and his Experience the Reality of Success workshop.  I just find it almost impossible to believe that someone who comes across as sincerely as David does in all his teleseminars, CDs and DVDs, could actually present, what he passes off as instantly “manifest[ing] money from nothing!”, in such a misleading, and deceptive way.

Sure, I know that I can often be too trusting.  And I know that conmen and women are conmen and women because they are so convincing with the sincerity of what they are doing, offering, and saying.

So is David is a conman?  Or is it that, like so many high powered business men – look at Wall Street – he “just doesn’t get it”.

One of many very notable examples of a men (and they are mostly men) who just didn’t get it  was Ken Lay of ENRON.  Have a close look at the excellent production of  ENRON: The Smartest Guys in the Room.  It was Ken Lay, amongst others, who kept and kept insisting that he had done nothing wrong.  And to examine Lay’s face as he says that, it was quite clear that Lay truly believed that he’d done nothing wrong.  It was totally beyond Lay’s understanding that what he’d done was in any way wrong.  To him, whatever happened was just business.  Lay just didn’t get it.

And I have to wonder if David Neagle is the same.  I’ll let you be the judge. 

After the Experience the Reality Workshop was over, I went up to David Neagle and I said to him that I thought that his so-called manifestation exercise was utter B/S (only I was so angry inside that I didn’t use initials) and I continued to state, amongst other things, that at best it was an exercise in persistence but actually an exercise in begging.  And in no way was it an exercise in manifestation. 

David’s reaction to my comment was not one of surprise, as I would have expected if he truly believed in his exercise.  Nor did he try and explain why it was such an important exercise for me to do.

Instead, he said absolutely nothing to me, but throughout my entire speech he just gave me a side-on form of grin. 

The grin or smirk said one of two things to me. 

  1. “You poor woman, you’ll never amount to anything with that attitude”.  OR
  2. “Well you’ve found me out; there is nothing that I can say”. 

 Again, I’ll let you be the judge.

This is an important issue – Please leave a comment

If you heard my radio show this morning, please leave me a comment.  Just click on the heading to this post and then scroll down to the comment box.

If you want to hear the program, then just go to http://www.healthylife.net/RadioShow/archiveSS.htm

The recording of the show is dated July 1st.

Or if you’ve been to David Neagle’s Experience the Reality of Success [ful begging] let me know if you felt the same way as I do.

Amazingly, I know of a number of people who do agree with my sentiments and yet they never felt like speaking out.  Again, this is a case of the Emperor has no Clothes.  People seem to be afraid to speak up publically about things that are of concern to them.  Instead they just grumble amongst themselves.  That sort of thing does not help anyone. 

As the famous 18th century philosopher and politician Edmund Burke said,

 

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing.

 

Now I am not saying that David is evil.  I’m just saying that he needs to make some major changes in the way that he does business.

 

Which Brings Me To Another Major Concern – David Neagle’s Coaching Practice

If you are receiving coaching from David, this part is well worth a read and consideration.

Apart from his workshop, David has a very lucrative coaching practice.  He charges $25,000 for a 1 day coaching intensive.  And has other 6 and also 7 figure coaching packages which extend over a 12 month period. Yes, $100,000, and $1 million.

Now what David charges for his services is entirely up to David and the client’s who are prepared to pay.

However I’d like to raise a couple of very important concerns for consideration.

And again I’d love to hear what you think about this.

CONCERN #1 – the way in which David sells his coaching packages

To sell these packages, as an upsell, at the Experience the Reality of Success workshop, David got his two star coaching clients to give a talk for about 2 hours on what they had achieved as a result of David’s wonderful coaching.

What they had to say sounded extremely impressive.  Yes, they had each paid $100,000 dollars, but they had made $1 million over the 12 month period that they’d been working with David. 

Impressive indeed. 

What they failed to mention was that that $1million was gross and out of that had to come enormous expenses, as well as David’s $100K, which certainly makes the results far less attractive.

Even so, these 2 people were extremely impressive. 

But I have to wonder, did they achieve their success due to David’s coaching, or are they the sort of people who would have achieved the same success with any other coach.

Nevertheless, the impression was that everyone that David coaches has those results, or something similar.  WOW! 

However, there was a woman at the workshop who’d touched my heart because she was obviously having a very difficult time and was not making much progress at all in what she wanted to do with her business.  She was deeply in debt, and obviously quite depressed and confused. 

At the end of the very last day, I discovered that she too was one of David’s coaching clients who was attempting to pay $100,000 in monthly installments.  She’d been working with David for 6 months and still didn’t even have a business plan set up. 

She had signed up with David at the previous workshop after hearing the results from his start performers, like we did in our March workshop.

How many of David’s other $100K, or even $1 million, clients are like this poor woman?  How many of David’s clients have worked with him with absolutely no results at all for their $100K?  Yet we only hear of the absolutely brilliant exceptions.    

CONCERN # 2

The second question that I have about David’s coaching practice concerns me even more. 

The question is; “What is he actually teaching his clients?” 

 
If David’s actions are as questionable as they are because he just doesn’t get it, then all he can do is to teach his clients to operate in the same questionable manner.  And they won’t get it either, because in their mind, how could it be unethical because the “Million Dollar Coach” himself does it and is making millions, so it must work – and so it must be OK.

My concern is that David is probably breeding a whole generation of David Neagle business practice clones who are mimicking his questionable business actions.  And, as I said, like David, they won’t get it either.  They are just selling their soul for the glitz and the dollar.

At this time of major change on our Planet, integrity and ethical practices cannot, and must not, be compromised.

 
There is a basic rule of ethics that I always teach my students. 

Acting ethically can often have short-term pain.  But it will always have long-term gains.

By contrast, acting unethically will almost always have short-term gains – a major one is to make a heck of a lot of money.  But I can guarantee that in the long-term, acting unethically will never be sustainable – there will always be long-term pain. 

Again, ENRON is a fantastic example. 

In the short term, everyone at ENRON made a lot of money.  But it was not sustainable.  In the long term, the company collapsed, people were left penniless, and the executives went to jail, or died.

It always happens that way!

Take the example of this very blog post.  I have never been able to believe how very, very foolish David was with regard to my refund request.  Any intelligent business person who has an extremely unhappy customer will give them what they ask for – in my case, a refund – just to get rid of them.

Had David done that in April when I first asked, I would have gone out of his life.  But no.  Instead, after my 3rd request for a refund, David sets his lawyer onto me and now, through the World Wide Web, his actions are able to be examined and questioned by the entire world.  What a silly, silly man!

If these are the standards by which David Neagle conducts his own business, what is he going to pass on to his coaching clients?  Obviously the same questionable standards and poor business practices – and all for a mere $100K, or perhaps even $1 million.

I know of a number of people now who won’t do business and won’t promote anyone who’s been coached by David Neagle because of the concerns I’ve just raised.

 

But now, back to Experience the Reality of Success

My recommendation is, unless you really want to experience the reality of begging on the Las Vegas strip at 10 o’clock at night, save your money and just buy his CDs and listen to his content.  You’ll be far better off.

Alternatively, in my experience, one of the best ways to learn about the Law of Attraction is to listen to the works of Abraham through Esther Hicks.  They are by far the most superior teachers of this philosophy

For the Record

 The first night that we had to go out on the streets, the Tuesday night, I went with my group.  I was in total disbelief at our task and kept saying to the others; “this is not manifestation.  There must be something more that we’ve missed”.  And so I did not do any begging that night.  By about 10pm, I said that I’d had enough of this nonsense and so I was going back to my hotel.  This I did.

As virtually no one had “manifested” any money on the Tuesday night, about 3pm the next day, Wednesday, David sent us all out again to do the same thing.  On this occasion I apologised to my group and said that I would not go.

The next morning, Thursday, the last official day of the workshop, David called up on stage everyone who had not “manifested” any money at all.  There were about 10 of us who were on stage. 

David then said words to the tune of – I made a promise to you all that everyone at this workshop would manifest money.  So now you are all to go out on the streets again and keep trying to get that $1000 and don’t come back until after lunch. 

This time I thought, well if I am going to complain about this exercise (which I had intended to do), I am going to have to have done it.  Otherwise, I could be accused of just being frightened and not wanting to, or not being capable of, begging on the streets.

So this time I went out and I “begged” for money.  In 45 minutes my begging had resulted in just under $69.oo.
That was well in excess of anyone else at our table, and well in excess of most of the people in the room.  And they had all been out for 10 – 20 hours.

So I felt that $69 in 45 minutes demonstrated that I was able to perform the task of begging very well indeed. But once again, begging is NOT THE MANIFESTATION that I had come to learn. 

And as for David’s question in the post Experience the Reality of Success teleseminar, “How did you feel?  What was the experience like for you?”  I continually felt, and my constant reflective reaction was

I’ve flown half way around the world and spent $12k AUD on a begging exercise and stuff that I’ve heard and done so many times before.  I don’t think that I’ve ever felt as ripped-off before, as I do now with regard to Experience the Reality of Success.” 

That was exactly what I was reflecting on.

Posting a blog like this is not about emotionally hanging on to a perceived wrong.  It’s about voicing my experience so that others who might be thinking of doing the workshop have a much better idea of what to expect.

There is a big difference between emotionally hanging-on, and speaking up.

Emotionally hanging-on will never do us any good.  But speaking our truth is what we need a lot more of.  

So again, please leave a comment so that future prospective Experience the Reality of Success students can make their decision based on the truth.  Based on the REALITY of what they will EXPERIENCE.  Not the deception they hear and read in David’s promotional material.

 

 

 

 

 

Hey David,

I’d still like you to return the $12,000 AUD

that your deceptive promises cost me. 

Kashonia   

 

 

 

{ 106 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Judith Sherven and Jim Sniechowskli July 5, 2009 at 3:56 am

Kashonia,

We have never attended a David Neagle live event nor have we
listened to any of his CDs or DVDs so we know nothing directly
about him and his work. Nevertheless we are in complete support
of you and what you’ve posted on your blog. As you know we’ve
taken a strong stand against the hype, the deception, and the
abuse that passes for promotion and advertising on the Internet.
As long as most people passively accept the fraud — the fraud will
continue — and then we void any right to complain because we are
complicit.

Part of the deception has to do with the manipulated use of language.
For example, the word “manifest.” To many people these days,
especially those who aspire to wealth and ease, the word “manifest”
has a very hopeful connotation – magical, automatic, effortless, special, metaphysical, even supernatural. To believe that is to allow the hypester’s intention to hook, snare, and manipulate that hope and persuade people — yourself included — to do things they would not otherwise do. And many defend their abuse with the warning – Caveat Emptor – buyer beware. But what kind of commerce do we believe in and accept when the buyer must beware of being ripped off. That warning, which is taken-for-granted, opens the doors for all manner of scams and cons and then the buyer is told – you
should have done your due diligence. And yet there is no hue and cry for the seller to beware.

This, as you know, is partly why we’ve written our most recent book:
The Heart of Marketing: Love Your Customers and They Will Love You Back.

We are dedicated to educating both seller and buyer against such abuses, otherwise we will continue to create a marketplace of suspicion, mistrust, cynicism,and suppressed rage, which does no one any good — seller or buyer.

We commend you for taking a stand, and, as we said, we know nothing
about David Naegle. However, we do know that you are a woman of integrity,intelligence and resolve and we support your determination and your unwillingness to just let this pass.

Because It’s All in the Connection,
Judith Sherven, PhD & Jim Sniechowski, PhD

http://TheHeartOfMarketing.com
http://BridgingHeartandMarketing.com/blog
http://SoftSellMarketersAssociation.org

2 Cathy Perkins July 5, 2009 at 4:19 am

BRAVO! You said what I suspect many people want to say but just can’t. We must be ever vigilant about picking who we follow. There are so many ‘internet gurus’ out there like David – just not quite as expensive. They don’t care what they say to get your money and then they make up reasons not to issue refunds when they don’t deliver.

On top of that – what they offer is a complete sham! And then they brag about how much they are graciously doing for you!

Lesson – be very careful about choosing someone to learn from.

Keep on speaking out, Kashonia. I knew I liked you the first time I ‘met’ you. I was so right!

Cathy Perkins
http://TheWordPressWizard.com

3 Kashonia July 6, 2009 at 4:15 am

Judith, Jim, and Cathy,
Thank you so much for your wonderful supportive comments. I really appreciate them.

Needless to say, I had many doubts about posting this blog. But there was something inside that kept telling me that I must speak up. On air I used the example of Howard Beale in the 1976 movie Network “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more”.

Since becoming involved in Internet Marketing I’ve met some wonderful people, such as the 3 of you. And there are many aspects of Internet Marketing that are so ethically positive they make my heart sing.

BUT I have ALSO come across many, many people that are just not what business in this 21st century is all about. And I’m hoping that by speaking out as I am doing, it will gives other people the confidence to do the same. Not only about Experience the Reality of Success, but about whatever it is that concerns them.

Judith and Jim, as I wrote this blog I kept thinking about your wonderful new book, The Heart of Marketing: Love Your Customers and They Will Love You Back.

This blog post, would HAVE to be a perfect example of what can happen when your customers DO NOT “LOVE YOU BACK”.

Thanks again to you all

Love
Kashonia

4 Cinda Crawford July 8, 2009 at 5:25 am

Kastonia, I read your blog today with great interest. ‘Too Much Hype’ and ‘Not Enough Substance’ is the bane of all business, but it seems particularly prevalent and damaging on the Internet. So many of us want to do our best, give of our best and create a clientele who not only value what we produce, but also value us as their mentor of record. If we don’t give of our very best, we’re in danger of doing all of humanity a disservice! Dear, if you can’t get your money back, I encourage you to consider giving up your quest of trying to make sense of David Neagle, et al. It sounds as he won’t ‘get it’ or change. You, dear, can and will if you learn and move on to bigger and brighter pursuits. May you find the answer that you desire from within. It probably has been there all along. Recognize it, appreciate it and manifest all good things to come from it. Blessings, Cinda Crawford

5 Dr. Andrew Colyer July 8, 2009 at 9:32 am

I’m really sorry that you had such a bad experience with this dude.

Have you read any of Dr. David Hawkins’ books? Approximately 50% of the population of the U.S. and 85% of the planet, have a state of consciousness that calibrates below the level of integrity.

We use muscle testing and kinesiology to ask our Higher Selves if it’s in the best and highest interest of all to do business with certain people.

Thank you for taking the time and the courage to write such a lengthy article about the awful experience that you had with this guy. Maybe you can help hundreds, if not thousands of people by writing such a detailed account of the bad experience that you had.

As long as humans remain on this planet, there will probably be “snake oil” salesman.

Thank you for helping to contribute to Ethical business practices in our online community.

In my “Inner Circle” coaching program, I spend 4 hours per month one-on-one with clients, as well as group coaching calls. Using strengths assessments, strategic planning, emotional clearing, and muscle testing & kinesiology, we figure out what is in the best and highest interest for our clients, create the plan, and focus on implementation. How the bleep could anybody be in a coaching program and not be making any money?!? I don’t know what the bleep this guy is doing for $100K or $1M per year!

I’ll be at Judith and Jim’s “Bridging Heart and Marketing” seminar in October in L.A. Maybe we’ll see you there!

Thank you very much for being yourself, posting this long and informative article, and giving others on the internet permission to speak the Truth about unethical business practices.

Dr. Andrew Colyer

6 Betty L. Smith July 8, 2009 at 3:37 pm

Wow… It takes social courage to speak out as strongly as
your are… Three Cheers for YOU! Your truly care about
other people.

7 Suzie Cheel July 10, 2009 at 1:45 pm

Wow, I was about to sign on for David Neagle’s Recession Rescue with Rapid results program.

Looks like the angels are looking after me. I decided to google about DN and found your blog.

I have just read about you and it looks like we have lots in common. I also know Yollana through the Journey

Like your comments about Law of Attraction and the Hicks. Very true

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Namaste

Suzie

8 Kashonia July 13, 2009 at 10:15 pm

All of your comments and support make my heart sing – thank you.

Cinda, thank you for your advice to move on “to bigger and brighter things”. The post was not about emotionally hanging-on to the experience. Like you, I know that is not healthy. The post is about speaking up about my experience so that others, in the future, can make a sound decision as to whether or not to attend.

The more we can speak up about situations that are not as transparent as they should be; the more likely that people will take a lot more care to ensure that they do Influence with Integrity.

Andrew I loved you comment. I don’t have any of David Hawkins books but I do have the most wonderful CD program of his that I often listen to.

Kashonia
http://www.Kashonia.com

9 Aamer Iqbal July 25, 2009 at 4:49 pm

I was greatly impressed by David Neagle after listening to replays of his Art of Success calls. So impressed that I have been contemplating attending the Experience Reality of Success workshops at some point after saving up for the fare and other related expenses. I think I have been saved a lot of money and time; I did sign up for the Recession Rescue wit Rapid Results and listened to the first call. It was useful; but then again any good coach should be able to be of help there. In fact I coached myself, and I was helped tremendously by Robert Middleton’s Infoguru Manual in marketing my services. There is so much stuff out there with the various laws (attraction, manifestation etc. more being added.) One of my acquaintances once remarked after seeing his kid with the latest gizmo, “How much were you duped for?” Thank you for revealing to me the mystery of manifestating money that has intrigued me for the last year, and for saving me a fortune. I do find that David’s products are useful to a degree, but overpriced and have quite some overlap in content.

10 Kashonia July 25, 2009 at 9:02 pm

Hi Aamer,
Thank you for your contribution. I’m glad I was of help.
I totally agree with you about The Art of Success. I too have listened to it numerous times and was greatly impressed. And that program, together with all of his other CDs and DVDs is why I went to ERS.
I thought if he is this good on CDs he will be fantastic live.

As I said in the post, I honestly think that David, “just doesn’t get it” – doesn’t understand why the way he’s promoting Experience the Reality of Success is so unethical; and how it can hurt people.

I wish you all the best in your journey.
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

11 Jenny London July 29, 2009 at 2:13 am

Kashonia I think its fab you spoke out about these things and your honest feedback as to what you experienced.

Anyway, So many people out there dare I say it- hero worship this chap David Neagle and have him as some kind of Guru status. Some ladies on twitter lately etc, were just so, so over the top banging on about how they can’t believe they have recently been chosen to be coached by The David Neagale and couldn’t sleep and saying oh my god he has chosen me I am so blessed ‘ – Give me a break please and get a life!

Notice how many of the usual suspects (Internet marketing and business marketing so called experts and many mostly women (without naming names – yes we all know who they are and refer to David as ‘their mentor’ etc) they all cross sell and forever promoting each other and constantly saying how amazing he is etc, etc. all twitter each others programs, joint venture teleclasses and so forth.

Notice how all these ladies I can’t help but say along with quite a few are frankly absolutely obsessed with making money and how they can ‘help’ you too and then give it all these continuous overused buzz names and use woo woo language patterns such as ‘living your soulful divine purpose and heart centered this and that…… or use a lot lately ‘solupreneur ‘ or your real authentic self in all their descriptive sales pitches and websites and in promoting and running their various platinum this and that programs /inner circle and mentoring …. devoted to creating financial freedom for women and ridiculous names they call themselves ‘The so and so Diva queen’

They all copy each other wording and phases on their websites.
Bottom line let’s get real here their all almost obsessed with earning money and its all they talk about in their material and websites 6 figure this 7 figure that, multiple streams of income and dress it up in saying things like “ I am helping many woman out there while making a difference and it’s my life purpose and calling….”

Oh well said it now and pardon the ‘pun’ my pennies worth!

I do well in my life retired at age 34 now 15 years ago after selling a business (personal development and training) and I never have to work again and I do a lot of world-wide charity work, so I am not coming from lack and therefore did not say what I said because I have issues around money and so forth or jealous….. I give and raise hundreds of thousands to people each year I just wanted to comment on all this and your post with David Neagle and so forth.

I think we have to be careful on all this hero worshiping and ‘following ‘ and be a bit careful and not get sucked in and many are getting into debt to follow their so called latest gurus training program or inner circle membership programs.
Thanks for highlighting your experience of some smoke and mirrors you witnessed and speaking out and being honest and things are sometimes not as they seem.

Jenny

12 Marilee July 31, 2009 at 9:44 pm

Kashonia,
I don’t understand why there are not any other reviews from his ERS program attendees that reveals the begging night but instead glorious reviews?

I know of a photographer who has gone twice but never mentioned this humiliating experience.

Is there a disconnect or brain washing going on?

13 Kashonia July 31, 2009 at 11:21 pm

Hi Jenny and Marilee
Marilee I’ll address your comment first and Jenny, I’ll make a few comments about your post in a separate comment box.
I certainly don’t understand either why no one has previously spoken out. If they had, I would have saved myself a lot of money. But maybe the Universe wanted me to go so I could speak out.

Personally, I never considered the begging exercise a humiliating experience. Maybe I’m past the stage of being humiliated. Thirty or 40 years ago it might have been different.
My great anger is that David used that exercise for what he continually promotes as a manifesting money in vibration with the universal energy – or some such thing.
AND I was also upset because it was what I call a LAZY workshop as far as David is concerned.

I have presented workshops for many years and they were always extremely exhausting events from my perspective as a presenter because I put so much into them.

With this event, the major part of the workshop was the begging exercise and guest speakers, several of whom were there just to upsell to David’s high end coaching programs. The times that David was on stage speaking he was repeating information that I could hear any time on his CDs etc.

Nevertheless, I tried to write my post in as neutral a languange as I could. I just wanted to present the facts as I experienced them. And what others want to take from those facts is then up to them. I couldn’t be fairer than that.

I know of at least 10 people who felt as cheated as I did. And I asked them if they would write a comment as a past participant. And they all gave all sorts of excuses why they didn’t want to get involved. Despite their initial outrage.

I have also received a number of private emails from people who, once knowing the facts, have chosen not to attend the next Experience the Reality of Success event.

Now as to why there have only been rave reviews. There could be a number of reasons.
1. David promotes the “life-changing exercise’ as a secret. And so I know that a lot of people won’t mention it because they don’t want to potentially spoil the exercise for others, just in case they get something out of it. I have a couple of people that I know who did this to me.

2. Is brain washing going on?
It’s interesting that most of David’s followers are women under 50. And most about 30- 40. And whilst David obviously didn’t do anything for me in the charisma stakes, AND I am well OVER 50 – but for many I can see that they could find him charismatic. And when a charismatic multi-mullionaire says I will change your life they fall under his spell no matter what he gets them to do. That’s how conmen make their money. Although I am not saying that David is a conman, just misguided when it comes to ethical representations of his event.

I spoke out at the workshop to a number of women about how appalled I was, and they verbally attacked me in what I found was quite a fascinating way.

Also, it must be remembered that most of the videos on line, and other positive comments come from David’s high end coaching clients. And if you’ve just paid someone $100,000, you are going to make sure that at all levels of consciousness you can justify spending that money. No matter what is going on.

And I have to wonder how many people who have promoted David in the past and whose videos he still uses, regret having done so.

Love
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

14 Kashonia July 31, 2009 at 11:47 pm

Hi Jenny,
Thanks for your comment.

As I mentioned in the previous comment, yes they are mostly women who fall under his spell. I’ll have to check out the Twiiter things at some time.

Now to be fair, there are many people/women who do say they have had life changing experiences after attending Experience the Reality of Success.

I know that for many of them, however; Experience the Reality of Success is the first workshop of it’s kind they have been too. And if you haven’t heard David’s CDs and you haven’t been to a workshop like that before, then it could quite possibly have a positive impact. That is the only reason that I can think of that would make the workshop a life changing event.

But I’ve been attending these types of workshops since 1979, and teaching them since the mid 1980s. And as I’ve said on a number of occassions, I did get some valuable insights from some of David’s audio programs that I purchased.

And I’ve always said, no matter how many times you’ve heard similar information, there’ll always be something new that you’ll learn from every workshop.
Unfortunately that was not the case with Experience the Reality of Success.

Although I know many who disagree with me, but I think that David is quite sincere, but has just progressed along thw wrong path. He talks about the importance of giving – but only demonstrates a money focus of getting.

As far as the women internet marketers doing the cross promotions, I have no problem with that. In fact, I’ll be doing a bit of that myself in a couple of months when I launch The Learning Loving and Laughing Project.
I also have no problem with people making as much money as they are able SO LONG AS what they do is done with integrity. Done in an ethical way.

Obviously you made a lot of money to be doing what you ar doing today.

I know of several women, clients of David’s, who are following David’s lead of having extremely high priiced coaching programs. And the coaching they are offering is not always backed up with a great deal of experience.

Also, I don’t have a problem with the woo-woo language. I’m a bit of a woo woo person myself. And my PhD thesis which come out in 2000 was called Heart-Centred Virture Ethics: Raising Ecological Conscviousness in Organisations. And the term soul-based business is started to gain popularity to describe a certain very positive approach to business.

However, what does concern me is the ever increasing number of people promoting themselves as having soul-based businesses and yet, like David, they “just don’t get it”. They are not REALLY influencing in a soul-based way. And sadly, because they just don’t get it, they don’t realise that they need to make some changes. And that is at the heart of The Learning Loving and Laughing Project – whose subtitle or tag is Time to Start Influencing with Love … both personally and professionally. Hopefully some of these people will join my program and learn how to avoid some of the traps that they can fall into.

Finally, congratulation Jenny on the work that you are now doing. It must be incredibly satisifying.
Love
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

15 Marilee August 4, 2009 at 10:42 am

Kashonia,
I knew I read one other negative comment amidst a sea of “fantastic, life changing” experiences.

http://acumenva.com/2008/07/didnt-drink-the-kool-aid/#comments

16 Kashonia August 4, 2009 at 9:27 pm

Marilee,
Thank you so much for the link.
It’s great to finally find someone else who is prepared the speak up.
Love
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

17 Mikey August 6, 2009 at 6:27 am

WOW! Thanks to me I did a search on David Neagle. I too was getting ready to sign up for his seminar not to have him tell how to become a millionaire in 12 months, but just to see how he does his business. There’s something I can honestly say about getting, or “manifesting money from nothing”…don’t happen. If that were true, I would be richer than Buffet. I got my wealth and business and life from actullay being out there on the streets of this evil world and doing something for what it is I want.

Since I was 13 (I’m 52 now) I’ve been hustling for life. As the oldest of 12 kids, 10 blood and 2 steps, I had to learn the hardway how to get off my butt and hustle and think for what I want. Not begging mind you, but getting out on the streets and telling people who I was and what I do and convincing them that I could give them what they want.

I’ve been in business since 1979. That’s when I became “unemployable.” I’ve had many businesses, but still own the one I started with. I’ve succeeded in a few and failed at many. In that time I’ve learned how to survive financial defeat, illness, raising 3 kids, suicidal depression, parents divorce, theiving partners, major setbacks, loss of homes, cars, money and a few other tribulations. Sure it has been a tough life but you know what? If you got it easy you’ll never build your own style of personality. And all those setbacks builds ones character. I’ve seen many coaches/consultants in action and it seems like they have learned a few lessons in life or had some difficulty, that in my book aren’t all that big a deal. There is one guy who had a TV prgram here in the US and has become quite the personality for telling you how to do your finances. He’s good and really makes a scene wherever he goes with his flambouyant looks. You know what his hardluck story was? He never had but one pair of new pants to wear. DAMN! I had to wear hand-me-downs all my life when growing up. If that was a hardship I would’ve become a mass murderer for sure.

These guys are very good at selling the snake oil but for the most part none of them cannot do for themselves if you throw them out on the street without props. I believe we should be smarter than them and depend on ourselves first. Then and only then can we truly show others the way. There is no such thing as a “SECRET” where all you do is think your way out of a situation. The only secret is getting off your ass, discovering what you do and go for it. Oh one more thing, you gotta “work right” for it or nothing will ever happen.

Once again, a BIG THANKS for showing us the false prophets.
Mikey

18 Duff August 14, 2009 at 8:57 am

My concern is that David is probably breeding a whole generation of David Neagle business practice clones who are mimicking his questionable business actions. And, as I said, like David, they won’t get it either. They are just selling their soul for the glitz and the dollar.

That is almost certainly what is happening. I’ve seen it with Tony Robbins and others, with similar hard-sell pitches on expensive “advanced” seminars, and extremely expensive coaching programs. In many ways, the personal dev and new age circuits are a giant pyramid/ponzi/MLM scheme.

Personally I think any massive, personal wealth-seeking is likely to degrade into this kind of corruption, as it is fueled by greed, plain and simple.

19 Kashonia August 14, 2009 at 11:37 pm

Hi Duff,
I loved your “giant ponzi scheme” comment.
From my perspective, there is nothing wrong with seeking wealth, not even massive personal wealth. BUT sadly for all too many people it becomes an adiction and the main game for them, instead of the more simple approach, and higher values that they might have started out with. It can be a bit like selling your soul to the Devil and they don’t have the skills to think at high enough spiritual levels to realise what is happening to them.

20 Julia August 17, 2009 at 4:59 am

Kashonia,
Thank you so much for writing about your experience. I was looking on-line for information about David because my sister went to the Las Vegas seminar and then bought into his expensive coaching program. I have been so concerned about her because she has gone into debt for all of the fees and has not been able to get her business to grow. She is now following along, doing exactly what David does with his business, to try to make her millions. It is very hard to watch and she is so convinced that his approach to success is the best way to make money.
My sister told me about “manifesting” $1,000 on the streets and it was the first of many many red flags I had about David’s teachings. It’s hard to believe there are so many people who are willing to do that. I am so puzzled by all of this.
How could David have convinced my sister to go into debt and sign a contract to pay him a monthly fee (an amount she couldn’t afford and used credit cards to pay) for phone consultations and weekend Mastermind sessions? Her business isn’t growing and he is now advising her to take more financial risk, because that’s what successful people do! Her debt is growing and growing, not her business. I think that it must have been obvious to David, that what my sister wanted to do and her ability to make it happen were questionable. She is not business-minded and is quite childlike at times. None the less, he took her money, telling her that making a million dollars within 6 months was “no problem”.
It is impossible to get her to see what’s going on here. Her attempts to make her business grow have involved unethical decisions and somehow she no longer sees right from wrong.
Thank you so much for writing about what you experienced. It has really helped to validate all of my concerns.

Julia

21 Kashonia August 17, 2009 at 10:30 pm

Oh Julia
I’m so sorry to hear about your sister.
For Neagle to hammer people to get into debt just to give him an over priced fee for an under priced product under the guise of it’s how business is done, is unconscionable.

And to say she’ll make a million dollars in 6 months is probably an illegal claim under the FTC Act.

That’s what he demonstrated with one of the speakers he had on stage to convince people that they should buy his high end coaching product. But as I said in the post, that person possibly did GROSS over a million, but after expenses it was not much more than a couple of hundred thousand. And then she had to pay half of that to David for coaching fees. In addition, it was quite clear to me listening to her story that she also virtually had a nerverous break down getting there too. I found her story almost too painful to listen to in March. But then all of that side of the story was not publically told.

Sadly, when things are going tough for people, that’s when they are most vulnerable and will see the silver ball and chase after it no matter what. And it’s obviously people like David Neagle who take advantage of this.

I think I also mentioned in my post about a very distressed woman I met at Experiencing the Reality of Success who had been “working” with David Neagle for 6 months at that stage and she didn’t even have a business plan together. But she was still paying her monthly fee on her credit card and getting deeper and deeper in debt each month.

I’ve said before, if he is so confident about his success rate then he should offer a deal of if I don’t turn you into the million dollar success that I’ve promised, then I will give you your money back.

But then he promised to do that with just the workshop and he refused to give me my money back despite promoting the fact that he would – see quote in post.

I assume that you’ll show this post to your sister. Although like a number of other people under his spell they won’t be able to see what’s happening.

So just get her to look at the post section by section and ask her if what I have said is an accurate representation of what happened. If she can see beneath the glitz and glamour and just consider the facts it might help her think more deeply about it all.

All the best
Love
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

22 Julia August 18, 2009 at 4:31 am

Thank you so much for your kind words and suggestions. You have really helped me understand this whole situation much better.
I hope that others who are looking into whether or not to work with David will find these posts.
It’s amazing to me that he wouldn’t refund your money and instead now has this information on-line. It seems as though money is very very important to him.
Thanks again, Kashonia,
All the best to you,
Julia

23 michael j hillsey August 24, 2009 at 7:34 am

it is perhaps unfortunate you had this experience…and then again perhaps not! You have given wonderful voice to much that troubles folks about many people and programs that purport to “help” and “develop” others. The description is indeed, from what i know of David, and, yes, we have met (not at his event though), quite accurate. The coupling of Ken and David was not only appropriate but brilliant. the idea of ‘not getting it’ is also appropriate (the absence of a moral/ethical compass is widespread). Your commentary went far beyond just a “bad experience”…i commend you for your effort and applaud the quality of that effort! mjh

24 Kashonia August 24, 2009 at 10:45 am

Hello Michael,
I have several friends that believe that I had the experience with Experience the Reality of Success for a reason. And I’m inclined to agree with them.

David and all of his team should really sign up for MY course which will be associated with The Learning Loving and Laughing Project when it launches at the end of September. The course is called Influencing with Love and is about teaching people the thinking skills necessary to ensure that they DO GET IT everytime.
Thank you so much for your support and very kind words.
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

25 Christine Eilvig September 7, 2009 at 8:09 am

Hi Kashonia

Thanks so much for your post. You have done what I was about to do! I went to the same ERS with two of my business partners – we came all the way from Denmark

None of us were satisfied with ERS. We had heard all the theory before from Bob Proctor – David’s information is very much redundant to his, even the slides are similar – there’s nothing wrong with that – it was just not new information to any of us. On many of his products you keep saying that at ERS it will all come together. For us it didn´t. On the contrary: it all fell apart, including our hitherto confidence in David. EXPERIENCE THE REALITY OF FAILURE.

To make a long story short the “missing piece” was to send us all out on The Strip getting a 1000 dollars each. Nearly all of the people in the room ended up begging for the money. Only two women got the 1000 dollars – one being six months pregnant – by working all night for two nights in a row. To us that has nothing to do with success. If there is something women need to understand – it is that hard work is never the solution.

One thing we did enjoy at ERS was Tony from Zappos and his great talk on customer service. He said that his customers should never have a reason for a return. We totally agree, and we were very disappointed because David showed such a lack of customer service. There seems to be a large gap between his teachings and actions.

The letter from his lawyer ends with a: “We hope you will consider LIN for your further education needs”. That’s the point. When you treat your customers like that – you loose them for good – plus their network of people. Women talk and it is a very small world. No amount of money is worth the damage unhappy customers can create.

I love the teachings of Abraham and to go into a lawsuit with Mr. Neagle would be an “up stream” action that I would never consider. So I’m enjoying the contrast :) I’ve learned the hard way to be wise in choosing who to learn from.

And on that note: Do not engage with T. Harv Eker either. I ended up being beaten up by some very scary guys at his Warrier Camp in order to teach me “to fight back”.

Yes I may be naive – have done the “fire walk” too. We all have our lessons, and I’m taking full responsibility for mine. I’m back on track and loving the new feminine century – being in the vortex where no fighting, begging or hard work is needed :)

Blessings Christine Eilvig

26 Kashonia September 7, 2009 at 12:09 pm

Oh Christine I’m so pleased to have heard from you.
And yes I agree that the very best thing about Experience the Reality of Success in March was Tony from Zappo’s. I thought that he was FANTASTIC. What a wonderful man. Now he is the one who should be charging the world for top class business coaching.

David Neagle is currently promoting his next Experience the Reality of Success coming up in October. I do hope more people get to read my blog before they hand over their money.

So far, with the private emails that I’ve been sent, there are about 15 people who had planned to go to Experience the Reality of Success and who were horrified at our experience and so decided to save their money. That’s 15 x say an average of $3000 with the discounts that he’s now offering. That’s a total of $ US 45,000. Plus if 15 people have contacted me there would be at least another 15 – 30 who would have seen it and decided not to go and yet didn’t contact me.

So all because of David Neagle’s poor customer service and not honouring his word of I’ll give you your money back, he’s probably lost well in excess of $100K. All because he was too money hungry to refund $12K. And if he’d refunded my money at the very beginning when I first asked, I was only asking for my $4000US/$6000 AUD registration fee.

So his poor business practices have cost him at least $100K.

And this is the man who is charging between $25K for 6 hours and $1 million to coach people on how to be a top business person.

You quote a closing line from Neagle’s lawyer’s letter “We hope you will consider LIN for your further education needs”. Did you also get a letter from his lawyer?

You’ll never guess what David Neagle’s lawyer offered me to go away and continue to be a good LIN customer. Keep in mind I wanted all of my money back, a total of $12K AUD and I was offered a FREE CD. Can you believe that? :-) :-) :-) What a joke AND AN INSULT.

And that T Harv Eker experience sounds shocking. They just don’t understand how draconian all of this is.

And I too have done a fire walk, and broken boards. The boards were OK but I LOVED the fire walk. I did that with Tony Robbins. Now THERE is an impressive man in oh so many ways.
Take Care

Oh and pass the word around about my posting and get your friends to also comment. We might help a lot more people yet.

Love
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

27 Christine Eilvig September 7, 2009 at 6:03 pm

Hi Kashonia

Yes we got a letter from his lawyer – not with an cd offer though :)
He came up with a very lame analogue comparing David teachings to a band.
Saying that it was not their fault that we didn’t like their latest songs!

I really like David’s material, and I also like the part of him that is so very passioned about the Universe and it’s laws. But ERS was just too much. And the after play even worse.

Your blog is just “The law of attraction in action” and I’m glad that someone finally pointet out that this is just a very uncool way of doing business.

Best Christine

28 Kashonia September 7, 2009 at 6:21 pm

Hi Christine,
Yes the lawyer gave me the rock band analogy too which I explained to him was a ridiculous example.

You must have done something wrong not to be offered the CD though :-)

So not only is it costing him a great deal of money in people deciding not to touch Experience the Reality of Success. But his lawyer must be making a fortune out of it all.

You say that you really like David’s material and his passionate side. And that was what got me in too. But for his actions to be so far removed from his words, makes him even more of a hypocrite and very untrustworthy.

Take care
Love
Kashonia

29 Gloria September 17, 2009 at 7:33 pm

I came across your site a while back actually. And thank God I did.
I am currently in David’s Recession Rescue Program Tele-coaching program. It’s only ($247). and I just signed up for another 4 session program Mind-Money connection. ($99) I will say David N. has a way of capitalizing on his captive audience. He does know how to sell. (Not a bad thing).

After listening to the 1st of the 4 sessions of the new class all I can say is there is quite a bit of overlap. Primarily his bibles are: Science of Getting Rich, Think and Grow Rich, and the one other book that escapes me at the moment. He also parrots Wayne Dyer almost word for word and by paraphrasing a couple times.

If you do a study of those on your own and really have a heart’s desire. I believe you’ll get what you want.

It’s interesting that as much as he has promoted ERS on the calls my heart spoke to me… telling me that it was not the right time and place for me. At first I began to wonder if I had some kind of resistance to having a big breakthru or some other block?! But my heart just kept telling me not to do it. That’s what led to me searching to find out more info on ERS. I am so glad I discovered your post. Then I saw the blog from the lady in California titled- Didn’t Drink the Kool-Aid.

In fact we had our Recession Rescue call tonight and I was thinking… isn’t this the same thing I heard yesterday… which is the same thing on the CDs… then when he started selling ERS tonight my thought was … wow 4 days locked in a room with all of this going on…it will be emotionally overwhelming to some. They will be waiving their credit cards and checkbooks, like at a REAL cult following. I am hoping that he has gotten enough push back from the experiences of you and others that he has changed the program.

I can’t say his 1-1 coaching is or is not worth the money. I am sure that depends on the individual and what they bring to the table in terms of their talent, determination and faith to move forward but Ifind that people hang with coaches far past where they actually are in their journey. In fact, if ERS is that outstanding at the end of it you should not be immediately signing up for more and even higher priced coaching, you should be immediately taking action on your business from somthing you learned. or maybe you really need some business coaching and that’s what’s hindering you.
Then determine what kind of mentoring, coaching you need. You might not even need 1-1 coaching for a while instead you may need a different or bigger support team, to DO some work for you or differnet business model instead of being coached to death. If that $100,000 or $1 millon was spent on hiring additional team members in sales, marketing, tech and admin I wonder how much progress would be made. Sorry for the long rant. Thanks again for sharing your experience. May you be blessed for it.

30 Kashonia September 17, 2009 at 8:01 pm

Thanks Gloria for your comment and kind words.
Sadly, I don’t think that David Neagle has taken any notice whatsoever of my comments or the views of all those who have added their comments above.
And when I heard from Christine – Sept 7th, above – and heard that she too had receievd the same treatment from his lawyer as I did, I was shocked.
It seems clear that David considers himself above criticism, and those you do criticise are just handed over to his lawyer – who is probably hoping that Neagle never changes what he’s doing.
But how can someone be so allegedly spiritual when they are so arrogant that they consider themselves above critcism

31 Liz September 18, 2009 at 10:14 am

Kashonia,

Thanks for sharing this. I also am part of the Recession Rescue program and just signed up for the other calls. I happened to stumble on a comment this afternoon of another participant saying why she wasn’t going to ERS due to a critical comment. I decided to search (although I was not planning on going).

This is incredibly eye opening. I am new to David and was so impressed with the Art of Success that was how I arrived to this program. That being said, I have gotten enormous value of the calls, Think & Grow Rich, etc. but I can see the redundancy and overlap.

I really appreciate your courage in posting this and bringing truth and “accurate thinking” to this. And great tip on Abraham Hicks, will check that out.

Best to you!

32 Kashonia September 18, 2009 at 11:02 am

Thanks Liz for contributing to the debate.
As I think that I mentioned in my post – David’s promotional program The Art of Success is excellent. Indeed, you’ll probably recognise most of the quotes above as having come from The Art of Success. And as long as you take out his promises I’m sure anyone would learn a lot from that downloadable program.
In fact, I contend that there is far more valuable information in the free Art of Success mp3s than there is in the very expensive Experience the Reality of Success.

33 Nina September 29, 2009 at 5:42 am

Thanks Kashiona for this post.
I am also a part of Recession Rescue with Rapid Results and came across this blog because of a comment by another participant saying she wasn’t going to ERS because of a critical comment.
Mostly I am enjoying learning from David, however, I have found myself at times questioning things he says and then thinking ‘this questioning is just my resistance’, and find myself not following my line of thought through. So, this post was great as it reminds me (what I have already learnt in the past but certainly need reminding about) to trust myself, for it to be ok to doubt and question (infact that is essential to do so).
I have had an experience in the past when I stopped questioning a teacher and made him a guru, but this led to a very unhappy me. When I realized what was going on and allowed myself just to take from his teachings the things I agreed with in my gut (heart) then suddenly life became so much easier. So, this is a great post to remind me to allow myself to be critical when listening to David. It is ok not to agree with him all the time.
It is easy to forget sometimes that we are all human (including the gurus) and all have our blind spots and also that what may work for one person may not work for another.
Many thanks.
PS:
I have read and listened to quite a lot of the Abraham stuff. Much of it I love and some of it I just can’t get my head around. So, I take the bits I resonate with and test out the ideas I am taught and see what actually works for me.

34 Marilee October 5, 2009 at 1:04 am

HI Nina and Kashonia,
Guru’s can be dangerous. They are no better than you or I but they do have the power
of words and persuasion.

It is amazing how one teacher sounds like another with a different twist. Haven’t you heard or read what he/she is saying before? Yes, you have.

I have heard it all before through the writings of Florence Scovel Shinn. Florence is from the 1800’s period. “Ms. Shinn was an artist and a metaphysics teacher in New York in the early part of the 20th century. Her books are truly incredible. They are relatively short, but they are profound. ”

Florence Scovel Shinn, wrote the “Game of Life” and how to play it in the 1800’s. Yes, the 1800’s. Her writings are based on the Bible and Proverbs. You will recognize phrases like “Your’s by Divine right” ad “act as if”. Sound familiar?

She can be found on.
http://self-improvement-ebooks.com/books/game.php

Book Description
First published in 1925, this inspirational little book has helped countless thousands achieve a sense of purpose and belonging through understanding that life is not a battle but a game of giving and receiving — that whatever we send out into the world will eventually be returned to us.

“By studying and practicing the principles laid down in this book one may find prosperity, solve problems, have better health, achieve personal relations — in a word, win the game of life.” – Dr. Norman Vincent Peale

I just laugh when I hear Florence being ripped off without any credit given. I told David that I got his teachings when I read the teachings of Florence Scovel Shinn! Nothing different but the turning off the light trick. Can’t have light without dark….

“Just Believe” …. in yourself and a power higher than yourself. Divine Order, perhaps and Divine Right! I like that one.

You have all that you have been searching for inside of you from birth. Sit still and listen to the voice within.

Can I have $2500 for that advise?

Marilee

35 Kashonia October 5, 2009 at 10:12 am

Hello Marilee,
Yes I agre with all you’ve said. However, I must admit to not having heard of Florence Scovel Shinn. But will definitely check out that URL you’ve left. Thank you for that.

If she published in 1925, however, then Wallace Wattles – The Science of Getting Rich – at about 1909 pre-dates her. And Neagle does quote Wattles like a Bible.
All those Law of Attraction messages were very strong in the early 1900s.

Thanks for the comment.

I’ll give you the $2500 for the advice when I get my $12k back from Neagle :-).

Love
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

36 Emily October 13, 2009 at 2:18 am

Hi Kashonia,
I was there in March and watched in disbelief. This seminar was a total waste of money and time! All that you reported is true, and then some. I personally know one of the six figure coaching clients and the family is in financial ruin! They would be upper middle income had they just followed their own common sense, but they went for the big $ and now have none. Thanks for your bravery! What a scam is right on!!!
Emily
p.s. If you go to Vegas check out the Zappos company, that guy is the real deal.

37 Kashonia October 13, 2009 at 10:41 am

Thanks Emily,
It its quite clear that I’m not alone in my views regarding Experienceing the Reaility of Success. And far as his 6 figure coaching clients, as I think that I mentioned in the original post, David Neagle only parades his very few success clients. And they have the initiative to have probablt been just as successful with any other coach.

And the question is always, how many have completely lost their money like the woman I mentioned in the original post.

Also you are 100% right about Tony Hsieh of Zappo’s. He was the only impresssive part of the program. He was FANTASTIC.

And whilst I’m here, and maybe it’s one of those days for me, beacuse I am not normally this critical. But as far as Ivanka Trump, being the success that she is because of her personal talent and that it has nothing to do with her family name being “Trump” and growing up in the environment that she did.

Come on give me a break!

The mere fact that she grew up under the influence of the mother and father that she had means that she’d never be like the average person. And that has pluses and negatives too. Nevertheless, I would have been far more impressed if she’d gone out and got the non-Trump jobs under a totally different name and with no one knowing that she was Donald Trumps daughter. I certainly agree with her father making her do non-Trump jobs for outside experience – excellent. But for David to say we should be awe of her [paraphrase] because she has succeed on her own, show the level of intelligence that he attributes to his audience.
Love
Kashonia

http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

38 Kashonia October 13, 2009 at 10:48 am

Acumen Works | Social Media | Virtual Assistant | Los Angeles | Orange County | California » Blog Archive » Didn’t Drink The Kool-Aid
October 12, 2009 at 4:38 am

[…] 08/17/09: After publishing this blog post, I have heard many similar stories from other attendees. If you think you’re getting your money back, think again …

http://acumenva.com/2008/07/didnt-drink-the-kool-aid/#comments

***************
You are so right. I gave up thinking about my money months and months ago.
The blog is just to expose the truth about Experience the Reality of Success and how misleading David Neagle can be. And the more comments I get on my blog, and how others have received lawyers letters etc, the more it demonstrates how totally unethical David is.

Love
Kashonia
http://www.TheLearningLovingandLaughingProject.com

39 Kashonia October 13, 2009 at 11:05 am

Based on all of these comments and the numerous ones that I’ve received privately David Neagle’s “customer [no] service” policy has cost him well in excess of $100,000 USD so far with lost Experience the Reality of Success enrolments. All because he does not honour his promises.

And this is the man teaching others how to operate a top business!

40 Cheeezefries October 21, 2009 at 9:05 am

Kashonia~!

I remember you from ERS in March!!

I think there is a lot of good in ERS and in Neagle’s stuff. Not worth $5,000 for a 4 day seminar, but it is good. It should be a one day seminar without all the begging.

Cheese

41 Kashonia October 21, 2009 at 1:55 pm

Thanks for the comment Cheese :-),
As I said in the post – say the time, travel, and money and just buy his CD products. You’ll get all of the information, which I agree, is good.
Love
Kashonia

42 Marilee October 24, 2009 at 8:31 am

Kahonia,
I did some research on James Ray since the three deaths in the sweat lodge in Sedona. I found out he had another death on one of his outings where attendees dressed up like a bums without id, cell or money and were dropped off in a high class mall. This was after days of fasting, sleep deprivation and mind control activities. One level headed lady who attended this event was from Mn. She jumped to her death. Since she had no id, the police thought she was homeless. More can be read on this website.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450,77556

Does the practice of David Neagle’s begging seem close to the practice of acting homeless with James Ray. This is truly frightening.

Innocent truth seekers are put in harm or death’s way without a bat of an eye. The attendees are sworn to not reveal anything about the event. Sound familiar? They actually sign waivers that they may be financially devastated, mentally devastated and die. They are to hold harmless the organizer. The attendees were also swarn to secrecy.

When I read the info. on James Ray, I saw the similarity to David Neagle.
Who would know the truth without someone like you being bold to step forward?
Thank you and others for doing so.

Due to what I have read on http://www.rickross.com about the guru’s and soul-preneurs, I have officially resigned from the search. When you go to the website, in the search bar, type in your favorite character,Tony Robbins,Rhona Bryne, Byron Katie, Neal Donald Walsch, James Ray, and any church,etc. to see what is going on behind the scenes. It is frightening.

Marilee

43 Kashonia October 24, 2009 at 10:03 am

Oh Marilee,
I am truly devestated by your news. This sort of thing has GOT to stop.
I have got a deadline to meet on an editing project. But I am so upset by what I’ve just read (I also read some of the forum reports) that I had to approve your comment immediately and just say a few words.

Yes it does sound like David Neagle only David’s begging is not quite as dramatically dangerous. However, as I’ve mentioned in my original post, someone was nearly arrested and it would have been very easy to be mugged or even killed.

The Universe is currently nudging me to take more of a stand on these matters than I already have. Not sure how that will manifest, but something will come to me.

These actions are NOT what personal development are all about. We are moving into a period of LOVE consciousness NOT this appaling treatment.

I’ve been told T Harv Ecker is another one of these torture tricksters.

Notice they are all men with obviously no genuine understanding compassion or spirituality. Theyu are still operating out of the old male energy. That’s not a sexist comment, just a comment on reality.

Keep the search going for me Marilee. Whatever you find, I’ll publish.

Take care
Love
Kashonia

44 Zebe October 27, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Dear Kashonia,
I loved your blog. Your honesty and candor are wonderful! I will never attend a David Neagle workshop. Thank you for the information. You give me hope for the future.

45 Kashonia October 27, 2009 at 1:46 pm

Hi Zebe,
Thank you for you support.
That is part of my mission in life – to “give hope for the future”
I believe that it’s so important that we speak up so others can hear the truth.

Did you read comment 42 above. Some of the things that are going on in the name of so-called personal development are horrific.
Take care
Love
Kashonia

46 Hyosun November 3, 2009 at 1:23 pm

Hi Kashonia

I just got back from David’s October ERS 2009 in Las Vegas .
I do not regareat that I did attend in ERS because personally I had profound experience my self through wholel 5days event by any circumstances and all participants.
Now I can see more clearly where I am what I have to hold it and who I invite in my life.

We all of us are so weak enough to searching for THE ANSWER from outside yet it is really time to look at the our own STRENGH inside ourself.
I am congruent with my integrity and how I show up.

I found your blog the day4 of ERS and it is nice to share with you our life journey.
Be storng and well.
Big Hug,
Hyosun

47 Kashonia November 3, 2009 at 1:34 pm

Hello Hyosun,
Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.
I am so glad that David Neagle and Experience the Reality of Success was such a positive experience for you.

As I’ve said somewhere above, there will always be people who will benefit from Experience the Reality of Success, especially if they are new to this sort of work. And I also commented that David Neagle’s CDs etc are very interesting and beneficial.

My major complaint was the deceptive way the workshop was promoted.

And you are 100% correct that the strength is inside ourselves. And sometimes we need help in getting it out in the open.

Keep in touch and let me know how your journey continues.
Next week I will write again and tell you about a FREE teleseminar series that I’m running that you might like to listen to.

Meanwhile
THANK YOU for the BIG HUG.
There is nothing better
Love
Kashonia

48 Pablo November 3, 2009 at 11:47 pm

Great blog…..just wish I’d seen it before going to the Experience the Reality of Success seminar. Just got back and it was one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever experienced. This guy is not only dishonest, he is downright dangerous. His approach of analyzing people in front of the whole audience is dangerous and irresponsible. The exercise of manifesting $1000 is a pointless way of trying to get people to step outside their comfort zone. There are so many better ways to do this than to have people beg for money. I only lasted 2 of the 5 days. I saw through the BS and left after the second day. This was the closest thing I’ve ever experienced to a cult and brainwashing. It is shameful and all involved should be ashamed. I sensed demonic forces involved with this group/seminar. Thank you for spreading the word. You are helping many people.

49 Kashonia November 4, 2009 at 9:23 am

Hi Pablo,
Not surprised at your comment. I’m sorry it turned out that way for you. And you are right about the cult status. Those who follow David Neagle absolutely worship him.
Yet he is meant to be teaching people to think for themselves and that our strength is within.
So what is it that makes some people followers and others not? Perhaps it’s the values they possess.
Take Care
love
Kashonia

http://www.RaisingLoveConsciousness.com

50 Hyosun November 5, 2009 at 12:04 pm

Hi Kashonia and Pablo

Probably I was in same page and opinions as Pablo about the whole event and David..
I even so upset about David’s lack of integrity and compassion.
But I decided to stay to watch what ever happening within me and others.
As an observer it was so fascinated to see how same event or circumstanse reflect in so many different ways through every each individual.

The happenings with James Ray and the 3 deaths at his Spiritual
Warrior program have been a very big trigger also just different form yet, same challenge we face to.

When we aware and alert enough ourself, we can truly give a hand to other who need something from us.
Until then, be whole and stay who really I am .

PS: Now I really believe that everything is OK and my heart is full of love.
Again, appreciate to sharing great world.

much love to all,
Hyosun

51 Rob Britt November 14, 2009 at 12:50 am

Thanks for the insight. I really appreciate it. I was considering contacting him for an interview for the Get Inspired! Project but something just didn’t seem right and I had to dig. your post helped me to avoid a mistake
thank you again
Rob Britt
Inspiration Scout

52 Sam G November 16, 2009 at 2:10 pm

Hi Kashonia,

Wow, who would have thought that a posting from this long ago would still have traction?

It’s interesting, I came across David Neagle by accident, and was given the opportunity to go for a fraction of the price, so it’s quite possible that the financial and emotional commitment was not as dire for me as it was for other people. I went to this past one in October.

That being said, I went into it with an open mind, and while I too found the exercise itself disturbing at times, I did find overall, the experience to be a good one. Quite often, I found myself asking myself, “why the hell am I here” and why am I paying money to do this, but then I also realized that the whole point of this was to have an “experience” even if it wasn’t the most pleasant.

I am new to the “self-help” circuit, and admittedly, it was an intense way to get introduced to it. I can understand why many people think it is a cult. I certainly met many people who were “way too into it” and a bit too intense for my liking, but I also met many incredible people, who have a dream and needed help pushing through their boundaries in order to see what was and is possible.

The benefit of the experience for me did not come in the “exercise” itself or even David’s teachings (Which I found to be really wonderful and powerful even if at times I didn’t want to accept them), but in the form of the group that I met. Four strangers whom originally I didn’t want to be with, over the course of 5 days, we connected and worked together to some amazing results. Supporting each other, we helped each other see what we were truly capable of, and to address some of our issues that without properly confronted, we may not have addressed for many many years to come. I will admit that I was much younger than the average person there (in my 30’s), and I could see that many people came to the event (and to David Neagle) expecting a miracle pill that will solve all their problems. And I think that’s why many people see it as a cult. I certainly had moments when I felt that way myself.

However, I found there to be many valuable insights, and the experience itself helped me realize some of the stumbling blocks within my own life and career, and the fears and stories that have held me back. In the two weeks I’ve been home I’ve made some amazing progress in my career and outlook and I place part of the credit of that on the experience of the event. I will place more credit on myself, and the realizations I had about who I am and what I have to offer in my life.

It is interesting to come across this posting now, as I wonder had I found this would it have kept me from attending the event. I can honestly say I do not know the answer. I also admit that when I saw the title of your posting, part of me wanted to run for cover because I didn’t want to be disillusioned with what I learned from David.

What I respect is your acknowledgement that much of the content that he has to offer has merit; how he conducts his business is another matter, one in which I don’t have a particular opinion. I am sorry that you had the experience you did, and I agree that perhaps there is a better way for the story to have been played out. But I do wonder if despite your bad experience, something positive was gained from it. Yes, it did not go the way you wanted it to, and perhaps you were looking for the magic solution that was not to come. (The truth in my mind, is that no one else can give you the magic solution, it really does have to come from ourselves, and that experience trumps any knowledge learned in a book or at a lecture). But I also feel like it has given you clarity on how you choose to conduct your business and your own life, which if was something you already had strong feelings on, was only confirmed by this experience. So that in and of itself, could arguably have value.

Trust me, I have not drunk the kool-aid. I am very much a skeptic and part of me will always look for the ejector seat in these types of mindsets. But on the other hand, I do believe that the path that I personally was heading was not one that would make me happy, and studying some of what David has to offer, b/w the books and the CDs, will have a very powerful and long term impact. I do believe sincerely that David believes in what he is doing, and I don’t think it’s so much that he doesn’t “get it” it’s that he is really committed to what he is doing. The thing I do appreciate from him is that he refuses to coddle people, and I see that he preaches a philosophy that refuses to enable you to stay the way that you are.

At the moment, I have no intention of signing up for David’s $100K coaching practice, and am content studying and learning and applying it to my own life. As a life long student myself, I am curious to see where the path has taken me.

Thanks.

53 Nancy Fox December 20, 2009 at 9:52 pm

I haven’t taken David’s course, but know two coaches who have or are in one now.
They are doing very well financially.

I can say that as a coach, I see so many people unwilling to be uncomfortable to achieve more or accomplish their goals. I am not only talking about financial goals, either.

I have taken dozens of professional development courses from Tony Robbins, Bob Proctor, Brian Tracy, Jack Canfield, Landmark Education, and T. Harv Ekker.

I found all of them valuable in some ways. I took what I liked and left the rest.

The difference in what I am reading here about David Neagle is the lack of integrity in all that he promised and what he delivered. There is absolutely no question that he demonstrated a lack of ethics by not refunding your money, Kashonia.

Just to show how value is a matter of perception, many people detest Landmark Education’s programs. I have a wonderful coaching practice, and learned so much about how to look at myself first, take responsibility for myself. Out of this I have become a much better coach to people. I do not “sell” Landmark’s programs and respect people’s opinions. But that’s what we do regularly – operate as opinion-machines. Sometimes, these opinions do stand in the way of fulfillment and accomplishment.

I too took T. Harv Ekker’s Enlightened Warrior weekend. I loved it! I loved every bit of it and learned how strong and powerful I am. I never would have realized and experienced this with a softer easier way.

I think begging on the street is an over the top way to communicate a message about “manifesting.” I believe David could have created a much better manifesting exercise.

Consider this: there are many people suffering in today’s economy. They just want to survive. Perhaps we need a little kick in the pants to learn how to be stronger, more resilient, and get beyond our comfort zone to not just survive, but thrive as a result of these difficult times. What does that take?

It’s NEVER ok to guide people in an unethical way. The issue here is that many people feel victimized by much less than what you experienced in David’s begging exercise. Sometimes we do need to toughen up and learn to be creative an innovative or we will stay stuck.

Kashonia, this doesn’t sound like your situation at all and I commend you for illuminating David Neagle’s misrepresentations.

54 Kashonia December 21, 2009 at 12:39 am

Thanks for your comments Nancy.

As I’ve mentioned before, I too have done many many courses over the past 30 years, including most that you’ve mentioned.

And you’re so right, that we must go past our comfort zone if we’re to grow. But as you so rightly picked up – my major complaint was David Neagle’s total misrepresentation of Experience the Reality of Success. Including his misrepresentation of a refund if you didn’t get what he promised.

It’s the misrepresentation that I found unconscionable PLUS the appalling business practices with the way my objections were handled, from a man who is teaching others how to be top business leaders!

Thanks again
Love
Kashonia
http://www.RaisingLoveConsciousness.com

55 Deborah January 18, 2010 at 4:14 am

This is illuminating, Kashonia. I”m glad that you wrote it and I’m very glad that I read it.

I like your reference to his CD’s and DVD’s too – part of the confusion when choosing a program is evaluating other products, and I see that you really do value his other products.

Kashonia, I’m glad that you didn’t go to Sedona with James Arthur Ray. Such a similar story — he kept upping the ante. Good CD’s, good seminars, then needing to offer a bigger bang for his retreats. hmmm.

~Deborah

56 Kashonia January 18, 2010 at 12:12 pm

Hello Deborah,
Oh yes that James Arthur Ray thing at Sedona was horrific. I wonder if any of these workshop ‘gurus’ learned anything from it.

There is no need for it to be that hard or demanding.
That sort of thing is all for show and an expensive registration fee.

Thanks for your comments.
Love
Kashonia

http://www.RaisingLoveConsciousness.com

57 Marilee February 4, 2010 at 10:31 am

Top News Send to a Friend Printable View
Motivational speaker charged in sweat lodge deaths
FELICIA FONSECA
From Associated Press
February 03, 2010 10:16 PM EST

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) — Authorities have charged motivational speaker James Arthur Ray with three counts of manslaughter for deaths that happened after a sweat lodge ceremony he led in northern Arizona last year.

Ray was arrested Wednesday afternoon at his attorney’s office in Prescott on an indictment and was to be booked into the Yavapai County jail in Camp Verde, sheriff’s officials said. His bond is set at $5 million.

The Oct. 8 sweat lodge ceremony was intended to be the highlight of Ray’s five-day “Spiritual Warrior” event at a retreat he rented just outside Sedona. He told participants, who paid more than $9,000 each to attend, that it would be one of the most intense experiences of their lives.

About halfway through the two-hour ceremony, some began feeling ill, vomiting and collapsing inside the 415-square-foot structure. Despite that, Ray urged participants to push past their physical weaknesses and chided those who wanted to leave, authorities and participants have said.

Two people — Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y., and James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee — passed out inside the sweat lodge and died that night at a hospital. Liz Neuman, 49, of Prior Lake, Minn., slipped into a coma and died a week later. Eighteen others were hospitalized.

One participant, Beverley Bunn, previously told The Associated Press that Ray did nothing to help the sick. Ray’s attorneys have countered that he took all necessary safety precautions and wasn’t aware of any medical problems until the ceremony was over.

He declined to speak with authorities that night, on the advice of his attorneys, public records have shown.

Authorities said they quickly determined the deaths were not accidental and focused their investigation on Ray. They conducted hundreds of interviews that reached into Ray’s past events, including one in which a man fell unconscious during a 2005 sweat lodge ceremony at the same retreat near Sedona.

The self-help superstar who teaches people about financial and spiritual wealth uses free seminars to recruit followers to more expensive events. His company, James Ray International, is based in Carlsbad, Ca.

Ray’s representatives have said there was no way Ray could have predicted the night’s tragic events. Had he heard any pleas for help inside the pitch-black sweat lodge, he would have stopped the ceremony immediately, Ray’s attorneys said.

Documents released in the investigation showed that some people lost consciousness and others suffered broken bones at past Ray-led events and that Ray largely ignored medical problems that arose.

In the weeks after the deaths, lawsuits accused Ray and the owners of the Angel Valley Retreat Center where the sweat lodge was held of negligence and fraud. Ray’s publisher postponed two book releases, and Ray canceled his appearances amid heavy criticism from survivors.

Amayra Hamilton, one of the Angel Valley owners, has said the staff had minimal contact with Ray over the seven years he held sweat lodges there, and that other groups had used the same lodge for ceremonies without any problems.

Bunn said she believes the “Spiritual Warrior” events should be called off indefinitely.

“It frightens me that I didn’t stand back a little more,” she said.

58 Kashonia February 4, 2010 at 8:13 pm

Thank you so much Merrilee for the update on the deaths at James Ray workshop.

For those new to this post, Merrilee told me what happened in comment #42/43 above.

I read with interest, above, two very telling comments indicating neglect.
1. ” Ray’s representatives have said there was no way Ray could have predicted the night’s tragic events.”
This is probably correct because Ray does not have the training, or skills to carry out such a process. Therefore to force the issue of such an event was absolutely negligent because it was way beyond his area of expertise.

2. And the following sentence.
“Had he heard any pleas for help inside the pitch-black sweat lodge, he would have stopped the ceremony immediately, Ray’s attorneys said.”

It’s possible that the participants had been bullied into not making any cries for help before collapsing. And secondly, no matter what the exercise is, it should always be monitored. If the exercise had been monitored they might have prevented the deaths.

Thanks again Merrilee for the update.

Love
Kashonia

59 Kashonia February 4, 2010 at 8:23 pm

VERY INTERESTING – IT COULD BE THAT EXPERIENCE THE REALITY OF SUCCESS IS NO MORE
Hi all,
For the last few years David Neagle has held an Experience the Reality of Success workshop twice a year. Once in the first half of the year (about March) and then another in the 2nd half of the year.

I went to the March 2009 workshop. And by the time this blog was posted the October 2009 workshop promotion was well and truly under way.

However, so far there has been NO promotion whatsoever yet for Experience the Reality of Success for the first half of 2010.

I wonder if this blog has been even more successful than I had hoped?

Bye now
Love
Kashonia

60 Spirtually Charged February 24, 2010 at 3:51 pm

Good Evening; I am blown away by your comments about David Neagle. I have purchased a few of David’s products and have considered the Experience the Reality of Success on occassions. I think your blog and insight to Experience the Reality of Success is amazing and I truly thought I was missing something.

I can’t BELIEVE that David Neagle would do this. I considered recently joining his “Recession Rescue with Rapid Results Program” but I will not consider it any longer.

I found out about David Neagle through Fabienne Fredrickson who is one of David’s students. I purchased some of Fabienne’s stuff and it was interesting and offered some fairly good marketing related suggestions, nothing earth shattering though.

After following Fabienne for about a year, reading and studying her materials I decided to attend her Marketing Mindset Breakthroughs Workshop in CT. It was a good workshop and fairly good live marketing advice. BUT AGAIN!!! nothing Earth Shattering.

After attending her event in CT. I continued to follow her, and was invited to attend her Inner Game of Abundance Workshop. And WOW!!!! was I disappointed.

I went to Miami (FT Lauderale) for the workshop, spent about 25k, and was promised millionaire dollar mindset breakthroughs and all I got was well NOTHING.

OK, not true. I watched a bunch of people CRY a lot, about there childhood etc, and I watched people talk about there non-supported spouses. I listened to a lot of WOO-HOOOS, and Screaming from Fabienne’s mouth and everyones excitement because she was excited.

I stayed in the beautiful Trump Plaza, and I got to hear David Neagle speak about what was on “The Art of Success” which I absolutely LOVE!!

But this is where it all broke open for me.

I’m being scammed and they want me to feel good about it.

This was Fabienne’s FIRST EVER Mindset Retreat. It was actually entitled “Inner Game of Abundance”. Because it was her first retreat on the subject, she didn’t even give us a binder.

I was so pissed by this, that it has really turned me off in the personal development space, and or manifestation.

So here’s my questions
#1 How do we expose all of these crooks?
# 2 How can we get with legit people who can help you manifest and grow in all areas of your life that you will personally endorse, and
# 3 where are the money making opportunities in business right now.

I am pleased to say I didn’t spend my last dime on Fabienne’s Workshops and or David Neagle’s materials,

HOWEVER!!!!!!! I have spoken to several people that did, and I am heart broken for them, its time to EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE.

So with your permission I would like to create a list of all the fakers.

And a list of the good people in the personal development space, and have people give there real life experience – good or bad – and let these experiences be lessons that are growable moments, so people don’t continue to go down rabbit holes, in their personal developement journey.

Lastly, I can help you get your money back from David Neagle’s camp.

I have some friends in high places.

So anyone who TRULY lost money anywhere I can help. Thats all I’m willing to say on a public blog, but I’m sincere as I can be with what I just said. (I can help anyone who needs help recovering anything)

Lastly! Kashonia, let’s give some good resources and places people can go to get there life going NOW at rocket speed in 2010. God Bless.

Here’s my list of BAD (Personal Development Coaches) (Deceptive)

1. David Neagle
2. Fabienne Fredrickson
3. Alexandria Brown
4. Kristen & David Morelli
5. Suze Orman
6.

Let’s grow this list and Kashonia’s blog. You are great!!!

61 Kashonia February 26, 2010 at 11:03 pm

Well “Spiritually Charged” you certainly feel very strongly about all of this.
It’s interesting that at least 3 out of the 5 on your list of people to avoid include David Neagle and 2 of his associates – Fabienne Fredrickson, and Alexandria Brown.

My introduction to David Neagle’s work was via the God-like praise that Alexandria Brown bestowed upon David Neagle. One of her more amazing comments was “if there was a church of David Neagle I’d join up”.

As far as using your “friends in high places” to get my money back. Thank you for the offer, but I wrote my money off to experience a long while ago. Once David Neagle got his lawyer on to me, who offered me a DVD as compensation, I knew that there would be no money.

A FEW POINTS NEED ADDRESSING

I need to offer a few points here, though about some of the things that you’ve said – in no particular order.
1. Yes I am more than happy for people to add to the genuine trainer and those to avoid. However, I think we need to also include evidence for including people on such a list.

2. As an example, to say with any credibility that Fabienne Fredrickson is someone to avoid. I think there needs to be more evidence than just the fact that she didn’t give out a binder. And yes, a lot of people do tend to cry and “blame” others at workshops such as these. So I guess what I’m getting down to is to do what I did with my comments about Experiencing the Reality of Success.

Present the promises that were made. And then your experience at how these promises were either just not kept. Or were totally misleading.

So perhaps your comment that you were “promised million dollar mindset breakthroughs and all I got was well NOTHING” is something that should at least ring loud bells for other people thinking about the workshop.

3. Interesting that you add Alexandria Brown’s name to the list. I heard a very interesting and heart-felt story only a week or two ago about someone who did a one day coaching program with someone who remained nameless. The person telling the story said that she paid $12,000 for the 1 day, one-to-one coaching program and left in tears. She complained about what had happened as asked for her money back. But the organisation concerned would not listen to her complaints.

As I said she did NOT mention the name of the person. However, who ever that person was, everything about the one-day coaching program that she described was exactly the same as the one day program that Alexandria was offering. I know because at one stage I looked very closely into doing the 1-2-1 coaching with Ali Brown.

4. There are many, many, multi-millionaire coaches out there who have made their money and the EXPENSE of the vulnerable.

Just look at James Ray – see comments #42 and #43 and #57/#58 above. People died as a result of the shameful practices of James Ray at his workshop. Yes these people have go to be stopped.

5. And maybe some of them have been stopped. As an example David Neagle and the Experience the Reality of Success workshop. I think that David Neagle has stopped doing Experience the Reality of Success.

From the beginning, David held 2 Experience the Reality of Success workshops each year.
By the time my blog post came out last year, he was already promoting the October last year event. But since then there has not been a mention of the workshop from his camp. The Experience The Reality website is still there, but it looks like a deserted shop that’s closed down. Sure it has a couple of videos on it but no mention of a workshop.

So maybe, just maybe this post has resulted, either directly via the FTC, or indirectly, has resulted in David Neagle putting an end to his misleading and unethical workshop.

6. Last year I did a rough calculation based on the private emails I’d received and also the posts from people who said that they had intended to do the workshop and now won’t. And I estimate that my post would have cost him well in excess of $100,000 in lost revenue. All because he wouldn’t give me my initial request of $4000 back. What a foolish, and ARROGANT man. But then we know that : – )

And yet, as I said in my post, this is the man who is teaching others, yes like Fabienne, to be top business people.

Again, as I said in my post, my greatest fear is that his student’s will turn out to be just as unethical as he is.

7. To be fair, if I am to leave Kristen & David Morelli and Suze Orman on the list, I should at least know what they have done that is unethical. Otherwise I am being unethical.

8. Just one last point “Spiritually Charged”, it is most important that when we take a stand, as you’ve done, and criticise others that we have the courage of our convictions and are upfront about who we are and that we don’t hide behind a pseudonym. Sadly, all of our good work can be in vein if we are not prepared to say who we really are.

Thank you for your time and your comments. And I’d be most interested to hear your stories behind the other names on your list.

Take Care
Love
Kashonia

62 Dan (Clinical Social Worker) March 20, 2010 at 5:43 am

I found this page by googling “David Neagle Fraud”. That should tell you something about my sense of this person who appears so trusting. What you are describing with this person is sociopathy. The ability to look right at you, steal, and walk away and feel absolutely nothing. I have never been to a workshop, but with a person asking for a million dollars as coaching fee, he preys on the Rich + Weak. That is why Las Vegas is his venue. If he works hard enough, he can get a millionaire idiot in his funnel. This is person is also close friends with Alexandria Brown, the Ezine Queen – by the way. Wonder how those two are doing together.??

63 Kashonia March 20, 2010 at 11:57 am

Hello Dan,
I agree with everything you’ve said 100%.
As I mentioned in my post re the people he suckes in – the rich think he’s great because they make even more money whilst working with him. However, these are the people who would have made even more money had they been working with Mickey Mouse.

And the weak, like a couple of the people that I mentioned in my post, are people that David Neagle certainly never mentions and they are totally destroyed both emotionally and financially.

I found it most interesting to hear you mention his association with Ali Brown.

It was due to Ali’s amazingly high praises of Neagle and Experience the Reailty of Success that I got involved.

All of her early work and products were quite impressive. However, she too has some very high end coaching products. …

I’d love you to write to me personally at < support[at]kashoniatoday.com > just replace the [at] with @. And I’d love to hear more of why you included Alexandria Brown’s name in your comment. There had to be a reason.

Bye for now
love
Kashonia

64 Amy April 19, 2010 at 5:06 am

I also found this page after “googling” David Neagle scam. (He doesn’t seem to reimburse for return products either.)

Part of your post was picked up by another blog who compared ERS to a workshop in India. They tell their students to beg to lose their ego. Here’s the link:

http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2009/08/sri-sri-rips-off-rip-off.html

Thanks for posting this.

Amy

65 Kashonia April 19, 2010 at 2:21 pm

Thanks Amy for letting me know about the other site from India.
And also letting me know that he has the same problem with product reimbursement too.

I still find it hard to believe that so many people promoting a spiritual and loving message can get the whole deal so wrong.

Love
Kashonia

66 Pat June 14, 2010 at 3:06 am

Hi Kashonia,

Thank you so much for your post on David Neagle. I am new to his work, the Art of Success. I googled him, and found your blog. I read all the post.
You have saved me the money, time and trouble of getting involved any futher.

I will take what I have learned with Art of Success; but, I will not purchase any more of his materials, or attend any of his events. We all have the answers inside of us.

Keep up the good work.
Cheers,
Pat

67 Pete June 17, 2010 at 6:41 pm

How very interesting! Quite by chance I listened to his podcast with Jen Blackert last night. One strange thing I noticed, on her website Jen exclaims:

“Do you feel you have stretched to the max? You never seem to have enough time, money or fun in your business? Maybe you feel you are doing a million and one things, but never seem to finish a thing. Or perhaps you want to break that 7-figure or 8-figure barrier, but can’t seem to figure out how.

Does this sound familiar?

“We Know What You’re Going Through
— We’ve Been There.” ~ Jen Blackert, aka Attraction Diva

Three years ago I launch my first life coaching practice that I started because I wanted and needed FREEDOM from the executive corporate grind. I mean, I had suffered for 13+ years in corporate America and I knew I could make it on my own. ”

AND YET in the podcast interview with David Neagle she says her father was very wealthy, she’s always had money, she works around 5-6 HOURS a week, so what was the ‘corporate grind’ she ‘escaped’ from? Her website, all the ‘We know what you’re going through because we’ve been there’ rings extremely false. Or is it just me?

Also, all these lifecoaches teach is how to make money by being a lifecoach. There’s no end result, they don’t teach you how to build a real business where you make something, or provide a real service. When they talk about 7 figure businesses they mean teaching people to be like them. Exponentially everyone on earth could become one. Years ago I lived in the far east and they were shipping in cheap labour from other countries because everyone wanted to be a lawyer – no one wanted to work in manufacturing, or building roads etc.

68 Eyes Opened June 20, 2010 at 1:32 am

Thanks so much for posting this…I read every comment with great interest. I’ve been exposed to David Neagle and his proteges. I’m thrilled to read this because I felt bullied at a one day event Neagle did with Ali, but I thought it meant something was wrong with ME.Yet, I still considered going to his ERS after that experience…and that terrified me. It’s the whole “if you don’t do this you’ll fail forever” brand of selling – and they are very, very good at it. (After this experience, I’ve wondered if I would have drunk the Kool-Aid – very disturbing to me. I consider myself an intelligent woman.)

I’ve thought a lot about these programs and the high priced coaching programs. (I did one with another coach – not quite so high priced, but it didn’t really deliver what I was looking for – and I wrote what that was on the “application”. I didn’t even try to get my money back…the gist was that it was the client’s fault if the client didn’t succeed…and I can see that to a degree – but a lot of these coaching programs don’t seem to have accountability for the coach.)

I was a teacher and found this mindset disturbing…there should be responsibility on both ends.

I’ve got several friends who have done programs with these coaches – and all they got was debt and confusion.

The proteges David has turned out seem to have businesses that hinge on charging 6 figures. I, too, wondered where the ethics are in all of this…I’m embarassed that I got caught up in the seminar “thing” a few years ago – I thought that’s what I needed to do to be successful. I have learned a lot of good things, and seen a lot I wouldn’t want to replicate.

I have hired wonderful coaches, but all of this made me question the entire industry of coaching, but I believe we each experience things so we can help others with that information like you have done here.

Again, thanks for sharing.

69 Amy2 June 21, 2010 at 7:12 pm

Kashonia, that is such a beautiful name. ALL these comments and not one person said that!

I am perfectly guided. I experienced Ali’s pitches about David, got onto David’s list, like so many I LOVED the Art of Success and was ready to go to an ERS (it might have ended up being the same one you went to) BUT I was stopped. Why? I had no reason – but my inner guidance, my inner higher connection stopped me from going forward. Same with events offered by James Ray. My personality/ego self was all ready to go … but again, an unseen force and knowing stopped me – like a giant hand held out to stop my forward progress. The same occurred with all of Ali’s events.

I have finally come to recognize that NONE of these people can offer me what I can’t find within. Everything I need is within, the ability, the courage, the self worth, ALL comes from within me and does not have to be handed to me or “taught” to me by some guru or person outside of me. This is the same for EVERY one.

You are correct, ERS is no more. I am on David’s email list and the last ERS was held (I forgot when). It was promoted as the last chance to experience this powerful breakthrough event, the final ERS. Once again, my thoughts jumped to going, once again the big inner hand stopped me cold.

After reading your blog I am even more grateful for this inner wisdom, intuitive guidance and protective connection. It guides me and leads me well.

Thank you for sharing your experience and your observations so responsibly – those without their “big inner hand” activated need to hear of these experiences so that they can then choose with knowledge which way they want to proceed.

Many blessings and Thank you for all you do!

~Amy~

70 Kashonia June 22, 2010 at 1:24 pm

Thanks for your comments Amy. Yes inner guidance has literally saved my life on a number of occassions.

I have come to believe that I was “sent” to Experience the Reality of Success so that I could write the blog and help others.

Sharing your stories about your inner guidance is also helping many others too.
Thank you
Love
Kashonia

71 Jennifer Broadley June 23, 2010 at 1:41 am

HI Kashonia,
thank you for your blog. Thank you for standing up, standing out and doing so with integrity. It’s clear that what you’re commenting on comes from a well-researched a well-processed place and not from a place of malice or bitterness. Respect to you for that!

I also commend you for standing in the space (of a blog) of those you’re trying to hold accountable – ie. the sensationalist internet (and blogging) marketeers. Brave. And, if I’m honest, something I’d like to have had the courage to do myself some years back! I’ve had almost identical experiences with both David and with Ali. Although I’m a trained executive coach with an 8-year successful practice and I’m very much a higher-self-guided person, it’s HARD to know what’s my stuff and what to ask these leaders to be accountable for in their teaching claims.

In 2006 I attended a Ali Brown’s BluePrint for Success Workshop- cost me about £5,000 for the 4 days as I flew from UK to LA for the event (I was the only non US person so I was excited for what I could learn and take back to my market place and be ‘ahead of the curve’). Four subsequent years of asking ‘what do I need to do more of to get this stuff to work for me’, I’m still no clearer. I haven’t found the answers and have watched with interest Ali’s rise and rise (and I’m glad for her – genuinely – she has a gift, and a unique purpose which she’s clearly passionate about).

I’ve also watched thousands of entrepreneurs seek the answers I did – and from the sell-out Ali events we hear the success stories (finely edited) of the few (about 10-12) who do excel and benefit. We hear nothing from those who’s hard-earned $ are written off to ‘experience’ (must be 5,000+) because they simply haven’t the business or personal experience to use the content being offered, OR to separate what they need to be accountable for and what they’ve purchased in great faith and require the ‘teacher’ to be accountable for. I though I was the only one who had ‘fallen through the gap’, your blog is further confirmation to me that I’m amongst 10s of 1,000s.

A few years later, I attended a David Neagle ERS (promoted from Ali’s list). Again, it cost me more than most of the participants (about £5,000) as I had to fund flights from the UK to Las Vegas and a few extra nights accommodation at each end – which I was happy to do as, like you, I wanted an ‘experience of instant manifesting’.

I’d liked the simplicity of David’s universal law teaching (almost identical to Bob Proctors who I think David was mentored by for some years … and I love Bob’s material too), I liked the networking at the event and I did progress somewhat in my business during the following months and, with masses of further reading and research (not David’s), I have deepened in my universal laws understanding greatly.

Also, I DID experience the reality of manifesting at the event (woohoo!) … to the tune of $1.00 on the second night. I’d asked LOADS of strangers if they could give me $100.00 that night. I coach high performance on a daily basis so I understand something about mindset, empowering beliefs, stretching, being in your flow, the value of uncomfortable experiences and I came away glad of my awareness, glad of my confidence in asking, and glad that I’d made my $1.00 … because I then knew I wouldn’t have to stand up with the ‘non-manifestors’ the next morning. Wasn’t that an extraordinary ‘line-up-out-here-at-the-front’ process for a supposed self development expert to request? Speechless and squirmy I was to watch it! I have massive respect for you for lining up there at your event and even ‘HUGER’ respect for you then ‘manifesting’ your $67.00 in 45 mins – nice work ‘universe queen!':).

I left ERS in a bit of a mind fuzz back then in ’08. In fact here’s what I journalled whilst at LA airport awaiting my connection back to London: “What was that all about? I just did a 4-day course on a subject I can hardly remember. I feel like I’ve had a bombardment of information …. and the penny has still to drop”. I then go on – like a good positive outcomes coach :) – to define my dream, my abilities to bring body, mind, heart and soul into alignment and the areas that require attention for that to occur – more ‘being’, more trust, more … high net worth clients!!!

I had my largest grossing 3 months ever on my return from ERS. Then … my business went down (what?? that’s not what I’m supposed to be manifesting!!!). I had to leave London, my home and friends of 8 years, take my daughter out of school, move back to my parents. REALLY!!

I’m smiling as I write this because (not one to give up lightly) i THEN hired ANOTHER guru coach from the internet – Russell Brunson – who guaranteed that his program ($8,000) would have me automating my learning programs to my clients in under a year, generating passive income and giving me ‘the freedom you’ve always dreamed of’. After that year (of investing a further $20K in my business systems and support), I’d generated … eh $0.00. And I negotiated MORE time with DotComSecrets.com (because that’s all I could get from Russell’s organisation – they were NOT returning my money and NOT ‘giving up on me’ (uh, I jest not). They gave me a ‘free additional year’ to make back my $8K (oh, the irony! It’s like getting a free voucher for an expensive restaurant you’ve just been food poisoned in!).

After 3 more months of their coaching I was still S-T-U-C-K! I hadn’t the resources to get the 8K back and was tired of the investment of time where each week I became more and more disillusioned – so we parted ways.

So, why am I sharing this on your blog, Kashionia. Here’s why … I’m an intelligent, aware, smart, intuitive entrepreneur. I’ve run a 6-figure coaching practice on a 4-day week for years (just not this last 18 months!!!). I’m also a single mum. I want to be able to live a life with my daughter that has increasingly greater choices and greater freedom as we move forward.

I’ll get there. I’ve started over entirely with my coaching practice – re-branding, building it up from scratch, integrating my new, deeper relationship with Source.

Here’s what the experienced, wiser me now knows:
* I want a life with greater choices and freedom. Everyone does. And smart marketeers know that I want that. So they’ll supply a version of providing that for me, whether it’s through teaching me a success blueprint, a manifesting experience or an internet programs strategy.
* there’s no such thing as ‘get-rich-quick’ business strategies. Business is about tapping into your SOUL passion, working from that place (and ONLY you know it) and growing yourself as you grow your success. It can happen speedily for some, but go inside for that pace, work hard and with focus and always, always get up and try again. Your dream IS worth it and the world needs what you’re here for.
* the answers for success as you dream it lie INSIDE you. We ARE all infinite, eternal, universal so with some great self-development practices you can ask your higher-self to guide you towards your next steps
* There ARE great teachers out there … seek them out with wisdom, open mindedness and higher-self guidance. (And it’s okay to pick a few dodgy ones along the way – there are positives from EVERY experience.)
* Most successful internet marketeers are marketing what? … they’re marketing, marketing!! So they’re making millions using marketing techniques (their expertise) to market to me, to teach me how to market to MY clients.
* I’ve seen frustrated coaches, psychologists, designers, healers at these seminars – the ones who make the biggest money in the end are the ones who teach their clients how to market whilst teaching their skill alongside (so a reiki teacher might tell her clients … ‘I’ll teach you how to tap into your spiritual self … and run a more successful life and business (using reiki … AND internet and email marketing techniques to support that). Does that make sense?

I KNOW myself more profoundly, and deeply now than I ever have. I’m a better person for having invested in myself (above are just a few of the more questionable investments).

I’d personally commit to remain sincere, trusting and love-centered in my choice of what teaching I invest in next (whether a book, a coach, a group or a program). It’s forgiveness, acceptance and love (and a bit of this here blogging too!!!!) that make the difference in the long run. BE the change I want to see.

Bless you precious Kashonia,
Jennifer
x

72 Carolyn July 28, 2010 at 5:31 am

The problem with the begging exercise in my opinion is that it has the person demanding the means by which the money shows up. I do believe that with the right mindset, money can show up almost instantly. However, it is important that we not choose the channel for the Divine to work through. To say I’m going to manifest a certain amount of money and it’s going to be delivered to me by asking people on the street within a certain time frame means you’ve limited the way the Divine manifests. Maybe there is a better way for the money to come into existence than asking strangers on the street. The other thing is teachers like this say don’t worry about the “how”. This is accurate. The how isn’t up to us. We will be guided. Guidance is always gentle, not forced. This exercise forces the how and dictates the method. Does that make sense? Spiritual information really belongs in the hands of well-taught people.

73 Rosanna September 29, 2010 at 7:04 am

I’ve read through your very long post. I kept on trying to understand your point. I mean, David Neagle has sounded sleezy to me no matter what his promises are – so I couldn’t believe that a person who sounded as intelligent and articulate as you sound could “buy” into that kind of total BS. I kept on reading your post because I wanted to understand how it could happen to you.. in fact, if it happened to you, it could happen to a LOT of intelligent people on this planet.

I couldn’t make sense of it till I read these lines:
“This time I thought, well if I am going to complain about this exercise (which I had intended to do), I am going to have to have done it. Otherwise, I could be accused of just being frightened and not wanting to, or not being capable of, begging on the streets.”
That is to say, you accepted to beg in order not to be charged of something you perceived as “unjust”.

Well, Kashonia, that’s EXACTLY why people accept to be unethical… they feel that they “deserve” the money “without effort” (how unethical is THAT, btw, expecting money to come, to “manifest” without doing the hard work????) so they are willing to do anything they are convinced it takes for them to accomplish what they are after.

Given your background in ethics, I urge you to ponder what I just wrote… can a consumer claim to be pursuing an *ethical* product when s/he the consumer expects to make no effort to attain that goal?

It sounds to me like David Neagle has a niche, the “spoiled bratt consumer” niche. He targets people who don’t want to work and he rips them off because – you know – HE doesn’t want to work EITHER. And why should he, given that the customer doesn’t want to work EITHER?

Maybe it’s time for you to stop pursuing the “money manifestation” bandwagon, Kashonia. Your indignation toward unethical practices tells me that you feel very strongly about it in others and therefore in yourself as well. Don’t fall pray of the “I shouldn’t have to make any effort” BS, or you’ll be one of them!

74 Kashonia October 11, 2010 at 8:45 pm

Hi Rosanna,
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Feedback is always so important to clear up any misunderstandings.

So let’s look at some of your comments one-by-one.

As far as David Neagle “sounding sleezy” – some of his audio products are quite thought provoking and interesting. I don’t know if you’ve heard any of them or not. So as far as “buying into to that kind of BS” buying his home study audio products was something that I have no regret in doing. I think I even said in the post that his audio products are quite good. But that’s where it all ends.

It was BECAUSE I was quite impressed with his audio products, and also foolishly believed a testimonial from someone who I subsequently discovered has similar ethical standards to Neagle’s that I was prepared to believe his promotional hype when it came to the workshop.

That’s why the FTC come down so hard on false advertising. I just couldn’t believe that Neagle would be so stupid.

So yes I was foolish to believe what he said – but I normally trust someone until they give me reason to change my view. I feel that if we spend our lives distrusting everyone we will end up leading rather negative lives.

The second MAJOR misunderstanding that I must correct is your main focus that people who went to the workshop and who list to people like David Neagle do so from the expectation of getting something for nothing. That could not be further from the truth.

Believe me, neither I nor anyone else at that workshop believed that you just attended the workshop and money will flow in.

That’s not what “manifestation” is all about at all.

Without taking action – and massive action at that – we can never expect anything to come our way.

That was always my greatest objection to the movie “The Secret” – they seem to leave out the action component.

By the same token, you can put in all the effort in the world and act in the most massive way humanly possible and still nothing will work for you if you don’t know the technique or strategies for putting that effort to work in the most appropriate way.

And that’s what I went to the workshop to find out. Based on the promotional hype I was going to learn strategies that no one had ever taught before – strategies that when combined with action would lead to new successes.

My horror was that these strategies that no one had ever taught before were all about begging on the streets. No wonder no one had taught them before.

So re your comment ” you accepted to beg in order not to be charged of something you perceived as “unjust”.”
No – I finally carried out the exercise as instructed so that I had the grounds for writing the blog post that I did with far greater credibility than had I not done the exercise.

I did the exercise to demonstrate how ridiculous the exercise was. How totally ineffectual the exercise was.

And my blog post has had incredible success.

Apart from the very next Experience the Reality of Success workshop which had already been arranged when I my blog post came out -David Neagle has not put on another such workshop. And that’s only one part of the multi-faceted fall out that my post had on Neagle’s world

I reckon that the actions I took achieved my aims. Don’t you?

All the best
Kashonia

75 Marilee October 21, 2010 at 1:31 pm

Rosanna,
Fraud, misrepresentation and danger is what is happening at David Neagle and James Ray’s events. (add on countless other guru’ees) The thing that is wrong here is that a person pays a significant amounts of money for the course, transportation, meals and hotel to learn the way to market, achieve, understand principals, etc. from an expert that is promised. This is well intentioned by the investee. One goes to the event excited and ready to learn and work hard only to be “baited , switched and swindled” by the well known speaker. This is wrong, fraudulant and is happening all too frequently from the heavy hitters. We know who they are. This is what happened with David Neagle’s event and countless other “gurus.” It is a sly system but a system indeed.

I for one am happy to pay to learn something that I don’t know. I am grateful when that happens. It seldom does. I am tired of being “up-selled and pitched to” for the next seminar when this is day one of the event I jut paid for. Enough of the affiliates or another name for rip offs. This is wrong and must stop.

David Neagle and James Ray have both put their clients in danger by making them do things that were risky to individual’s safety. If any participant new that these “begging” events would take place at the event, know one would show up. This is the Master “Bait and Switch” and seems immoral, unethical and illegal to me.

ENOUGH!

Marilee

76 W H December 2, 2010 at 7:38 am

Thank you for your posting. I found it useful in my decision-making process.

77 Amy February 11, 2011 at 2:28 pm

Thank you for sharing your experience. I saw a Facebook ad for David Neagle’s tele-conference. I never heard of him, so I googled him and found your blog. Sucks that you can’t get your money back – class action lawsuit? I can’t believe he’s charging so much for coaching based on Think and Grow Rich – I belong to a Mastermind group (headed up by a millionaire) that “meets” by phone every Wednesday to discuss chapters of this book. This group has been going on for years and it’s totally free!

78 Chris February 12, 2011 at 7:49 am

Kashonia,

Thank you sooo much for your blog! Your own strong ethics really shine through to me, after reading this.

If it wasn’t for your blog, I may have ended up cheated by David Neagle, too.

I believe that, at a minimum, businesses today should offer an unconditional, money-back guarantee. If a business can’t stand behind it’s product or service, then it needs to re-evaluate the product or service. I feel this simple policy also goes a long way, to ensure ethical behavior.

And Amy above, I would love to join your mastermind group. Let me know if this is a possibility. You can email me at crbinvestments “then the at symbol” yahoo dot com. Thanks!

Warm Regards,
Chris

79 Marilee April 28, 2011 at 12:45 pm

Kashonia,
I understand that it may be illegal not to disclose your affiliations in business. If Ali is “Affiliated” (kickback) with David, etc. and doesn’t disclose it to her followers when she promotes someone else’s event, she can be the one that you go after.

The “Affiliation” loophole may be the way to go. Just a thought as I was signing an “Affiliated Business Relationship” form when I made an offer on a house.
Hummmm!
Marilee

80 Kashonia April 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm

Thanks Merilee for still thinking of me.

Yes you’re right, there are now laws against not telling people if you’re getting an affiliate commission for promoting something or someone. However, this happened well before those laws were proclaimed.

But Merilee I never really expected to get my money back. Certainly not after speaking with his lawyer.

Losing that money was worth every penny for the results I’ve achieved.

1. Helping so many people not to fall into his same trap.

2. Apart from the Reality of Sucess seminar that was already in the pipeline, David Neagle hasn’t run another Experience the Reality of Success workshop since my blog came out. That in itself is a fantastic victory for me.

3. He had to sell his $10 million home in San Diego and has moved East.

Sure he is still running programs, but at least with my blog still attracting comments people are now at least warned. And then if they still go ahead that’s up to them.

4. It was most definitely part of my life-journey

I was contacted a few months ago by a poor woman who lost everything – her home, and all her money – after giving David Neagle much much more money than what I lost. She enrolled in his entrepreneur $100K program and he did virtually nothing for her and would not give her a refund. Six month into the 12 month program and she still didn’t even have a business plan. And that is required before anything can progress. She is attempting to take it to court but he is making it extremely hard for her. Especially as she now has no money to fight the battle.

He obviously has no conscience and definitely no integrity, knows nothing about ethical business practice, and obsoluetly no compassion.

He claims to be such a spiritual person, but he doesn’t know the first thing about PRACTICAL Spirituality.

Take Care Merrilee and thank you again
Love
Kashonia

81 Glad May 4, 2011 at 3:56 pm

Hi,

I first heard of David Neagle from Fabrianne a few years back on FB, so I signed up for Recession Rescue. I thought for what he charged for the program ($247 for what I think were 9 calls or so) was fair. I did get some useful information but I found most of it to be the same stuff from other teachers, so I didn’t finish the program and unsubscribed myself.

Recently I came across a video of his with his clients and several things he spoke about clicked, that I decided to sign up for his coaching if I felt it was a fair deal. I have been stuck for almost two years in my business and almost in limbo as I watched it slowly decline. I signed up for his mini coaching program of $1,200.00 (over a period of 6 weeks), which I thought was okay. I would not had signed up if it was more than that amount.

Today I had my first call with him and I am still in awe of how in just 30 minutes through his questions I could clearly see the one thing that was holding me back. The big shift that I’ve been waiting for happened. I have had two other coaches in the past, one was okay and the other I ended up coaching myself!

I didn’t know much about David Neagle so I thought I google him after having a wonderful shift in just one session and found your post. I’ll continue with my coaching as it is working for me, but I will not go to any of his events after reading your blog.

I would like to think that perhaps loosing his home and moving to the East coast has humbled the man, but like I said, I don’t know much about him and hired him based on some of the things he taught in one of his videos that felt right for me.

I do feel it is good to invest in our personal development, but we must also have a budget and be wise on how much and who we choose. Sometimes we learn from trial and error but blogs like this gives us the opportunity to make better choices.

Thank you,
Glad

82 Marilee June 22, 2011 at 12:49 pm

Hi Kashonia,
New on the horizon is complaints about Gina Ratliffe, aka Gina Devee, a David Neagle and Ali Brown follower/promoter. It is interesting to see that the scam goes on and on. These folks seem to be doing something about it with some serious ramifications.

http://imarketingspy.com/about-me/
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/doesn039t-uphold-money-back-guarantee-c251773.html#c637258
http://hubpages.com/hub/Avoiding-Online-Scams

stop the scammin, man!
Marilee

83 Kashonia June 24, 2011 at 6:52 pm

Thanks again Marilee,
You certainly to keep a weather-eye on these things.
I don’t have a problem with Gina using a different name. This could well be due to a marriage or a divorce.

But it’s interesting to see yet another of Neagle’s clients with problems.

Thanks again
Love
Kashonia

84 Marilee September 16, 2011 at 1:29 pm

Kashonia,
CNN is doing a show about gurus ripping off clients. The producer has contacted Lady Lux, http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/doesn039t-uphold-money-back-guarantee-c251773.html#c637258
see the last post. David Neagle should be exposed.
http://ladylux.hubpages.com/hub/Avoiding-Online-Scams

The time is now.
Marilee

85 Kashonia September 17, 2011 at 9:56 am

Once Again, Thanks so much Merilee for keeping me informed.

I am now in contact with “Lady Lux” and have the contact information for CNN and will follow through on it.
You’ll have to keep a watch out for the CNN program. Maybe I’ll be able to see it on the computer.

Love
Kashonia

86 Angela December 30, 2011 at 3:46 pm

Thank you Kashonia for your blog post and to everyone for your comments.

I heard about David Neagle through Ali Brown at one of her Blueprint workshops. I listened to some of David’s audio recordings and had some great aha moments so much so that I attended one of his live events where he was promoting ERS. I found myself filling out the paperwork to attend ERS but something in my gut kept saying “Something’s not right,” and wouldn’t let me go to the back table with my credit card.

Every time I heard David Neagle’s audios or heard how someone I knew got so much out of ERS, I wanted to sign up for the next one. In fact, I was so bummed when I heard last year that he was no longer going to be offering ERS. I thought to myself “Wow, you really missed the boat on that one! Too bad you didn’t take advantage of it when you had the chance.”

Thank you Amy2 for your comment (#69 above) where you said: “I LOVED the Art of Success and was ready to go to an ERS (it might have ended up being the same one you went to) BUT I was stopped. Why? I had no reason – but my inner guidance, my inner higher connection stopped me from going forward.”

Up until the moment when I found your blog, Kashonia, I was still thinking to myself “Why am I not getting what everyone else seems to be getting about David Neagle? Why don’t I trust him like everyone else seems to?” (And when I say “everyone” I mean “everyone” who showcased as testimonials on his sales pages!)

Anyway, for some reason I found myself on David Neagle’s sales page for his next program in Feb 2011 which says: …my Breaking Free Live Experience is just what you need to learn how to summit any mountain, overcome any obstacle, and break free from what’s holding you back in your life so that you can step into your own power with a confidence and willingly take bold action toward the realization of your dreams and experience complete freedom in your life.

After reading the copy I was intrigued… and then my gut said “Something’s not right.” I finally decided to google reviews on David and found your blog. It all made sense to me on why my gut kept saying “something’s not right” every time I thought “I should do his program.”

I’ve always trusted my gut instinct and never understood why I had such a negative reaction to David even though I found his information very helpful. Now I understand. It’s because something’s NOT right. His words say one thing while his actions say another. Thank you for shedding light on what my gut knew all along!

87 Angela December 30, 2011 at 4:40 pm

Oops. In my post above I meant t write “Feb 2012″ and not Feb 2011 (seeing as I’m writing this in December 2011!) when talking about David Neagle’s upcoming program.

88 luke January 16, 2012 at 11:12 am

This man use to be my neighbor about 10 years ago. I think he was poor he lived in a tiny house and drove a beat up car. I think he was always trying to find an easy way to make money. Did he go to college and get a degree in philosphy? What is his background. I think he was a follower of Tony Robbins.
Near death experience? Come on. Well one things for sure he has found a great way to get me people in despair to make him rich. While he has them begging for money. Got to give him credit for that.

89 Kashonia January 17, 2012 at 1:29 pm

Hello Luke,
How interesting that Neagle used to live next door to you.

And I wouldn’t criticise him for being poor and driving a beat up old car. He’d probably be a better person if he was still that way.

And NO Tony Robbins is one of the good guys. Neagle was a disciple of Bob Proctor, who some say has similar tactics to Neagle.

Thanks for your comment
Love
Kashonia

90 Rodhisattva March 15, 2012 at 7:11 pm

Hi Kashonia,

I’ve just read the whole of this page plus the commentary.

I just cannot believe that this is the same David Neagle that recorded ‘The Art of Success’ !!! That 4 part FREE recording is of great value. I listened to it every day for 6 weeks on the way too and from work. It was really effective in changing my self perception and helped put myself on a ‘new level of awareness’….

so I AM HORRIFIED that someone that appeared to have so much integrity, authority and passion on that call could lower his own standards and CONTRADICT his own teachings…

I quote The Art Of Success: according to David, one of the universal laws is ”more life to all and less to none” …so how does this fit in with begging exactly?

Also: ”We never want to take someone’s choice away from them” … begging is a forceful way of attaining an outcome from a stranger. Also did he give you as choice? ”for those who don’t want to participate, that’s fine, stay in the seminar room?”

…. How on earth could this guy not have the Self Awareness, Empathy & Ethical Integrity that he portrayed in The Art of Success?….

H Y P O C R I T E !!!!

Ooh, gotta go, I’m late for work!!!

Love, Blessings & Unity

Rodhisattva

xx

91 sheri April 2, 2012 at 6:16 am

THANK-YOU for having the courage to write about such fraud so others do not suffer. My husband and I have paid for courses that were very expensive , and did not deliver what they promised. It would be good if these people were prosecuted and put in jail for committing such acts. When we complained to the credit cart company American Express they did not care. They would not stop payment and we were forced to close the card. We still believe in education and paying for value. Be very weary of any courses by Guru’s online. I have not studied any of david neagles work it looks like he “stole” or re purposed other peoples work. After reading about your experience which is why some of “his” recordings may be of great value, while he doesn’t understand the material to actually be able to teach it.

92 admin April 2, 2012 at 6:12 pm

Thanks Sheri for your kind comments.
I could not let Neagle continue to mislead people.
And my article resulted in him discontinuing the program – which I felt was a real coup.

Love
Kashonia

93 Arnoldo Senf April 10, 2012 at 12:47 am

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this, I really feel strongly about it and love studying extra on this topic. If potential, as you acquire expertise, would you thoughts updating your blog with extra info? It is extremely useful for me.

94 Kashonia April 10, 2012 at 1:06 pm

Hello Arnoldo,
Thanks for your comment.
I just want to check, is it the topic of Law of Attraction that you are interested in and would like to know more about? Or something else?

Bye Now
Love
Kashonia

95 Danica April 19, 2012 at 7:45 am

I was very impressed with your article, as I was searching for “david neagle scam” as I have been feeling that something is not quite right with him. Your whole review was very impressive, UNTIL you went on to say that Abraham Hicks was a good choice. They are even bigger quacks than David Neagle, and the fact that you believe in them makes your credibility take a huge hit.

96 Kashonia April 19, 2012 at 7:36 pm

Hello Danica,
Thank you for your comments – all of your comments. I will have to take another look at that article because I can’t remember what I said about Abraham/Hicks.

When I wrote that some years ago, I was a lot more open to the work of Abraham Hicks than I am today. In more recent years, I do have to agree, that I am a lot more concerned about the varacity of their claims.

Nevertheless, whilst I have written articles pointing out areas where I totally disagree with them, overall, their message, no matter where it comes from is relatively sound.

No doubt you’ve had a negative experience with them. Would you be prepared to share that with us?

Thanks again
Love
Kashonia

97 anon June 24, 2012 at 1:25 am

I am so interested in what happened with the cnn piece. I find that the business model is this:

They say, hmmmmm I need some quick cash for a trip to europe, or to go to a spa, or to pay rent and then they say, I’ll create a course, a ‘high end coaching package’ or a weekend event where i can get what i need.

like G. DaVee is now offering a one month personal coaching package for 20 peeps at 1k. so that will be 20k so she and glen can continue to travel europe… whatever, she offers unlimited email and 2 30 minute phone sessions…

i have seen her in action with a prospect at isagenix and she used fear and manipulation tactics to push this woman to buy..she did buy and then promptly returned the whole package…now GDV can use fear but she walks away, there are no refunds and nothing to return like a tangible product… not good…

people are sometimes afraid to say no in the face of fear and manipulation and so they say yes and the fine prints screws them over…

bad all the way around and BUYER BEWARE…learn to listen INSIDE and say NO outside…

warmly

98 Serena October 1, 2012 at 4:31 am

Hi Kashonia! Great blog post, thank you for writing it. I’ve been watching a lot of David Neagle’s videos, listening to his audios and reading his material lately. I’ve learnt an ENORMOUS amount from him. However, I think that, just as happens with a lot of people, not everything that he says or does is true or right. But then again, he’s just human. Two things that struck up red flags with me were his insistence on living a luxury lifestyle, and that everyone do it, and his elitism. I always distrust people who urge you to be so consumeristic. The other thing that stirred up red flags was when I saw him on video, something just didn’t look right about him. And finally that they offered me a product for free, but still wanted to know my credit card info. That always screams scam to me! (I didn’t order the free product, because I don’t give my credit card info to just anyone.) I think that he is a well-intentioned person who has just, unfortunately, gone astray, but he originally meant well. I suppose you could say, “his fame and fortune went to his head”? But he is just human, and just because he makes mistakes and does some things wrong, or even unethical, does not mean that EVERYTHING that he has said or done is wrong. I still believe enormously in the material that he teaches on his free videos and audios, and I still enjoy his blog very much. Perhaps over time he just got too full of himself?

99 Danni October 13, 2012 at 4:39 pm

David Neagle is now breeding even more scammers that sell “nothing” but smoke and mirrors. He’s responsible for: Kendall Summerhawk (has some good stuff but is more shady than anything), Suzanne Evans (total scam, sells nothing and pretends its “something” using coercive psychological persuasion), Angelique Rewers (This clown bought 10,000 fans on her facebook page https://www.facebook.com/RicherSmarterHappier) Total scammer – she serves about 20 clients per year and has 15,000 fans who are mostly from Bangladesh India- and she thinks shes fooling people. Not to mention Fabienne Fredrickson who worked under him and is a total selfish fraud. The first red flag of all these people is the only business they ever had is coaching people in business. If I ever decide to work on a deep level with a coach, I won’t work with anyone who doesn’t have an actual economical business to back up what they preach with all their gospel and zeal. But it doesn’t seem like there’s any out there! The question I have for the world is when are we going to learn to look at the actions of these people, and not just what they “say.”

100 Luke January 11, 2013 at 9:11 pm

I am sorry to hear that you were ripped off by someone who sounds from this review like a deceptive douche bag. Sadly I have come across so many of these types of people that it is sad. They are nothing but criminals promising “it all” to individuals that will come to a retreat or seminar.

Most of these success teachers are not teaching anything but a little philosophy, eastern or western ancient wisdom with a spattering of christian principles and basic hypnosis.

What I hate about the predators I have read about is they are never liable for their promises. They always seem to blame the vicitm. Eg. The vicitm didn’t believe in his/herself enough, didn’t believe in God, whatever the excuse to void their own lies and deceit.

By the sounds of it this man is not coaching on anything practical. (Meat and potatoes business stuff). Just working on your dreams of having more. (Something everyone wants) and basic hypnosis.

What I hate is these scum bags don’t even have the decency to return peoples money. Its only paper with ink on it.

I dont know much about David Neagle so I cannot judge the man personally. But I have heard of similar stories time and time again. The issue I also have is the gross mis-representation.

Notice these guys only promote their most successful clients? Notice it is very exaggerated.
Its usually some millionaire, or someone that was already rather successful or some lady saying two weeks after I met this coach I made an additional $10,000.

Like seriously. It probably had nothing to do with the coach. Does anyone notice also that many of these “success” teachers have never even owned a viable business. If you do not include the (insert first name here) Success Academy.. or their list of books.

Such as you can be a millionaire too.. lol..
Or.. i will show you the secrets that nobody else knows.. and you turn up and its a load of poopy.. lol?

Maybe these guys are not doing anything but taking peoples money under the guise of being a success? Maybe thats what made them wealthy? Not actually doing much but going on a holiday and charging 100 desperate people that need more in their life $3,000 for an “experience” some motivational speaking, dancing or walking on hot coals. When someones had thousands of customers come through there is bound to be one rich guy or person that attributes his success to that person even if it were total nonsense.

Everyone wants a better life. $12,000 is half my yearly income.. that was a lot of money you lost.

Who knows.. ?

101 Auto Salvage in Benton June 18, 2013 at 1:48 pm

Hey there! Do you know if they make any plugins
to assist with Search Engine Optimization? I’m trying to get my blog to rank for some targeted keywords but I’m not
seeing very good success. If you know of any please share.
Many thanks!

102 incensesticks.z1m1.com August 1, 2013 at 6:53 am

When someone writes an post he/she keeps the thought of a user in
his/her brain that how a user can understand it. Thus that’s why this article is perfect. Thanks!

103 sharecash surveys August 7, 2013 at 9:21 am

It’s difficult to find educated people on this subject, but you sound like you know what you’re talking about!
Thanks

104 D. Durwood August 15, 2013 at 6:26 am

Hey Kashonia!

Thanks to you I will be categorically ‘passing’ on The Neagle transformation. $25,000 is a lot to lose with no real guarantee or evidence of success. Too many charlatans pitch this mantra decade after decade, when will we ever learn…

I am reading an very interesting book on success and overcoming success blocks now, it’s called: “Outwitting The Devil”, by Hill. That not only describes in no uncertain terms how we screw up our life/success, but just what is required to make it work. Terribly interesting! I can’t wait to install the information deep enough that I can put it to use on auto-pilot.

Finally, I appreciate your efforts to expose people that not only destroy wealth but ultimately: hope. One day I hope you have your own Island of CA$H-on-ya!

May GOD continue to bless You,

David

105 L. Gallardo October 25, 2013 at 8:52 am

Kashonia, Thank you so much for writing about your experience. All I can say is that the moment I met David Neagle I had a very bad vibe (he believes he looks like Tom Cruise). Several years ago I was hired by an assistant to Mr. Neagle to video tape success stories from his seminars (I have them with all the bloopers). I taped Alexandria Brown and several others. We stayed at the Hilton in Vegas (where the seminar was taking place). Mr. Neagle didn’t talk about anything amazing, common sense and logical stuff, in general how to expand your comfort zone and to obtain a different result do something different (sounds like the Landmark Forum). People paid 3k for this information. I recently talked to that assistant (He lives in Santa Barbara, CA). He said that Mr. Neagle suggested to a couple from Canada that paid 100k to split, because they ‘could achieve’ more alone. Later Mr. Neagle dated that woman. What a scum bag with no integrity.
Kashonia, THANK YOU for taking the time to expose this charlatan, you will get more than 12k in amazing experiences in live…. Hugs!!!!!!

106 ?? ???? November 4, 2013 at 8:04 am

I’m not sure where you’re getting your info, but great topic.
I needs to spend some time learning more
or understanding more. Thanks for great info I was looking
for this information for my mission.

Leave a Comment

{ 2 trackbacks }

Terms Of Service || Privacy Notice